Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Apologies if this idea has been floated before; couldn't find anything relevant in my forum searches.

I suggest CCP remove the most lucrative high-sec PvE content from contiguous high-sec and place it exclusively in island high-sec. (edited from stuff about moving L5 missions explicitly, but as this suggestion is not about the details of which content goes where I've removed that bit to reduce noise). For full effect this should be combined with a change to LP mechanism so that relevant mission/incursion LP can only be cashed in at stations inside the high-sec islands as well, forcing LP items to be shipped out to market.

• high-sec islands are some of the most lifeless areas in all of EVE
• we know incursion/mission runners are not going to run stuff in anything but high-sec; no amount of incentive will pull them to a place where their PvE boats are vulnerable while running the content
• likewise, we know the current, almost entirely safe ISK generation from incursions/level 4 missions in contiguous high-sec is... slightly imbalanced
• putting the most lucrative high-sec PvE content in islands adds risk in a way that mission/incurion pilots would find palatable; their PvE activity remains unchanged, but the logistic/supply chain for LP rewards to Jita and mission/hub supplies from Jita is inherently at greater risk
• supplying high-sec island mission hubs would gives JF pilots something useful to do once the 5ly nerf goes into effect
• building mission boats/ammo/etc. in these islands would add even more terrain to the terrain-filled industrial changes of Crius

The key behind this suggestion is that it adds risk to the high-sec PvE income-earning process to justify the unbalanced risk/reward ISK levels. HOWEVER, unlike other suggestions, it adds risk in a way that is palatable to mission runners because it's added in a place separated in time and space from the PvE activity itself.

The false notion that mission runners are inherently risk averse in all things all the time has crippled balancing of high sec PvE content. They take calculated risks all the time. The essence to adding risk successfully to high-sec PvE is simply to not interfere with the process of running the content; thus, no amount of incentive will draw a mission runner to run PvE content in low- or null-sec, where the risk is coupled to the activity itself and changes the game completely for PvE. High-sec islands provide a unique way to add risk without interfering with the essence of high-sec PvE content.

The best part is, the core of this suggestion can already be seen in action. There are several lucrative COSMOS missions in high-sec island pockets already in Caldari space. Despite the one-time nature of these missions and inaccessibility of COSMOS missions in general, these are some of the most active high-sec islands I've ever seen with correspondingly "fun" and "content filled" low-sec chokepoints back to contiguous empire.

Hisec islands already have a purpose, this doesn't add any content to it... Simply just gives us another isk faucet.

I'm talking about replacing the essentially risk-free ISK faucet of level 4/incursion activities with this somewhat riskier ISK faucet to actually justify the level of income. Obviously the suggestion only makes sense in conjunction with a nerf to level 4/incursion income (as stated in the OP).

The difference between this suggestion to add risk to mission/PvE income activites and every other suggestion is that every other suggestion puts the PvE player at risk WHILE RUNNING THE CONTENT. They will never do this, ever. We all know it, but most people fail to understand the reasons for it (hint; it's not about being risk averse). This suggestion allows the risk to be inserted at a different point of the process that most PvE/mission running players I know would be perfectly fine with.

High-sec mission runners will never run missions in low-sec. Not ever. No amount of incentive not bordering on ridiculous will ever change that.



Yeah, honestly this suggestion isn't about L5's specifically. I don't care what the content is called; nerf incursion income, buff L4 income a bit, and move L4's exclusively to high-sec islands while leaving L5's where they are. Sure, whatever. The basic point is simply that putting the most lucrative high-sec PvE content in high-sec islands exclusively is something that will actually resonate and fly with mission runners while adding some risk to help justify the income levels.

I'm not sure if this is a proposal for limited high-sec L5s, relocating L4s out of high-sec or nerfing incursions… It would be nice to have a discussion and simply leave Incursions out of the equation for once. L5s in high-sec "islands" would be an interesting idea, although the LP reward would probably be 1/2 or less than that available from a typical low-sec system and typically less than most Faction Warfare missions - so the idea has some merit. Whether or not there is enough risk vs. reward to trek across low-sec remains to be seen...

With respect to moving L4 missions out of high-sec, I think the associated Burner/L4 agents make this problematic - although I don't have a problem with limiting L4 agents to 0.5 and 0.6 systems.

Burner Battleship missions...

Just for your interest, Goins last week where run by over 100 Incursion pilots, every day had 3-4 VG fleets, 0-1 AS fleet and almost always a HQ fleet up by the channels Helix, DIN, The Vanguard Project, IIC pub, D-Inc, TDF and OIC and the fleets out there where nearly 100% pirate BS or Marauder(only exception was TDF bouncing back and forth every day, that only did use a few BS and mostly T3s). Helix, DIN and IIC pub offered ship transport by jump freighters, IIC even did a constant high sec to island and back cov ops bridge(you could get out there and back in 5 minutes). I for OIC offered scouting the low sec route and flying in ships, modules, rigs, ammo etc on request in the morning with a couple of haulers(eta for everything including BS was about 35 minutes from Amarr, for 38 jumps whenever I had free time and didn't FC a fleet). Helix, IIC pub and OIC also did offer ship loan outs(Vindicators, Nightmare, Mach, Logis etc) from spare hulls we moved out there. The reason for this is that not everybody in Incursions is just a High Sec pve player and you might find Logistic know how and ship/alt setups in some channels that rivals the setup of smaller alliances, for the simple reason that it is done by the same people that did bring her know how with them(I did Logistics for bigger alliances before).

The only change what would I like to see is that Island Incursions could have longer cycles, because if it only lasts 3 days and it takes like 18-20h for myself even for such a small channel like OIC to move stuff out(including private requests) and back to empire each time that it is only worth it if you can run for at least 3-4 days.

If you ask around you find extra jump freighter capability or production resources quite easy(I always did), since the people that already are out there have this established already. Most people do mining, Industry and exploration on the Islands because there are not many people in space and no suicide ganks. I guess you could improve the payouts for L4s a bit on the Islands(LP mostly) but L5 would be overkill.

We even had quite a few people that live out there on the Islands in our fleets out there or later on the mainland and I even did find somebody that flown with us last year in empire nearly every day in local and could convince him to multi box a Oneiros and Vindicator for me, turned out he left Incursions last year after IIC stopped daily fleet, moved to Goins and started industry out there with his corp.

This assumes all people always transport all things "the right way". This is demonstrably false. I still see officer fit incursion ships getting ganked while traveling AFK on autopilot in hisec. There's no reason to think these same folks suddenly grow wise when transporting their officer mods through the pipe to their island mission hub.

They already get the reward; it's called running level 4's/incursions in perfect safety with essentially no risk. So you are saying that you are on record as being perfectly fine with the current zero-risk PvE high-sec ISK fountain? Good to know.

The proposal is to move the most lucrative high-sec PvE content (currently level 4's/incursions) from contiguous high-sec to island high-sec. Whatever mechanism used to accomplish this (moving L4s to islands or adding nerfed L5s to them or whatever other mechanism) is not important.

As to the risk/reward of crossing low-sec... I guarantee they'll do it. Either they'll do it themselves or they'll pay someone else to do it for them or else they'll support a local mission hub/island market that requires the risk be taken somewhere down the chain. Most likely some of each. Mission runners are not risk averse, they just don't want to mix their relaxing PvE/income activity with the risky PvP bit, for any number of reasons I'm not getting into. Sticking the most lucrative PvE content in high-sec islands allows this basic fact to remain unchanged.

Any suggestion to add risk to high-sec PvE/mission ISK generation is doomed to fail if that suggestion depends on mixing the PvE activity with the risk. Those players will simply fall back to the best income they can get while still pursuing an activity in the safety of high-sec. That is exactly what makes this suggestion unique... using islands allows the activity itself to remain unchanged while risk is still being added along the supply chain to justify the levels of ISK generation.