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CCP - Why you don't want to fix nebulaes for weeks now???

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Avila Cracko
#21 - 2011-11-25 20:32:23 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If you actually THINK for 2 seconds.....the programming code and video card power needed to generate all the Particle stuff for actual 3D Gas Nebulae so that YOU can be 'physically encompassed' by them.........I do not want to PAY for that.

Indeed a ridiculous WHINE here............................

THEY LOOK FREAKING FANTASTIC.


what particle???

only thing that can use more power is if solid color use more power then transparent...

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Avila Cracko
#22 - 2011-11-25 20:36:22 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:

And if you are guest... how do you become guest???
i would be guest too... because for guests is all free...
you know... i am a customer here... I PAY... and still TEST their product for free... and because that i expect at least an response.


Take that attitude of entitlement that paying means you can be rude and demanding to the host of a venue to any of the bars in my neighborhood, and a brawny tattooed guy will show you to the sidewalk at butt-bruising high velocity no matter how much cover you paid or drinks you bought. Think about it. Honey and vinegar people, if you are sweet everyone will want into your hive, but vinegar is for douches.


What attitude?
you are talking about guests...

I only writing response to CCP plea and don't like that when you do favor to some person he/she dont response you back...

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#23 - 2011-11-25 20:41:09 UTC
Morganta wrote:
well if it looks good in the video (recorded using someone elses gfx card and settings)
and it looks bad on your machine on sisi, perhaps the issue is with your gfx setup not rendering the view the same as the dev who recorded it


and really, the OP should be boiled in oil posting about gfx issues while playing on a laptop display adapter....


Big smile

Probably quite correct in different video cards displaying them slightly differently. Mine was top of the line a couple of years ago, which of course means that it's dated by today's standards. Sad

To the others, the dark area's in the Nebulae are one of two things.

Either gaps in the Nebulae, which are very natural (to your eye) to expect to see stars through or they are darker area's of "dust" which would likely blot out any stars further away than themselves (while nearer stars would be perfectly visible).

As I said, the way they currently show up in game to me is more than fine... everything looks fantastic. However I can see the point of asking if an intentional change was involved. The darker cloud area's (not gaps in the clouds) that allow few, if any, stars to show do add a layer of depth to the vista.

Given a choice between the two, I'd probably opt for the later... but you won't hear me complaining either way.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#24 - 2011-11-25 20:43:42 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:

And if you are guest... how do you become guest???
i would be guest too... because for guests is all free...
you know... i am a customer here... I PAY... and still TEST their product for free... and because that i expect at least an response.


Take that attitude of entitlement that paying means you can be rude and demanding to the host of a venue to any of the bars in my neighborhood, and a brawny tattooed guy will show you to the sidewalk at butt-bruising high velocity no matter how much cover you paid or drinks you bought. Think about it. Honey and vinegar people, if you are sweet everyone will want into your hive, but vinegar is for douches.


What attitude?
you are talking about guests...

I only writing response to CCP plea and don't like that when you do favor to some person he/she dont response you back...


By testing you are more doing yourself a favor than anything else. You really need to understand that especially just before an expansion release CCP may have bigger fish to fry than responding personally to every minor observation.

You did right to point it out, but be realistic. Tact is a virtue.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Bernie Nator
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#25 - 2011-11-25 21:27:29 UTC
To be perfectly frank, I think the nebulae are fine as is. The first time I saw them, I was stunned. They look fantastic. And they actually got the feeling for them right. Jumping system to system physically moved me closer to some nebulae or further from others. It's subtle until you region jump, which actually gave me the feeling that they were actual locations in space as opposed to large dust rings/clouds. I'd say they did a pretty good job on this one.
Oberine Noriepa
#26 - 2011-11-25 21:33:01 UTC
I want a optional high quality nebulae pack, please.

I posted this in the other thread ("The new nebulae."):

Ranger 1 wrote:
Considering those are screen shots done with a top of the line video card, I'd say optional is not an option. Smile

See below:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
So you will be downloading 201 megs, which are then compressed, I can't tell you the exact compressed size at this time. The maps were authored at twice the resolution we are delivering them in, and they are compressed. Ofc, they look much better uncompressed and in full resolution, so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare.


CCP Atropos wrote:
When they went in initially, raw from the rendering farm, they were about 2GB in size, which caused a few issues in client size Big smile

2GB for the entire uncompressed pack really isn't so bad. Since there are 68 unique backgrounds now, you're looking at 29MB per background. There are plenty of GPUs that can handle this, so something like an optional download for the people who want and can run it is certainly realistic. The nebulae featured in the Crucible wallpapers are cube maps. They're static images and not the actual CG renders of the nebulae.

Client size is the only limiting factor on CCP's end. Offer an optional download and everyone will be happy. If anything, I would think that CCP would like to have an option like this available for those who want it since they put so much hard work into these backgrounds to begin with.

∃
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#27 - 2011-11-25 22:09:06 UTC
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
I want a optional high quality nebulae pack, please.

I posted this in the other thread ("The new nebulae."):

Ranger 1 wrote:
Considering those are screen shots done with a top of the line video card, I'd say optional is not an option. Smile

See below:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
So you will be downloading 201 megs, which are then compressed, I can't tell you the exact compressed size at this time. The maps were authored at twice the resolution we are delivering them in, and they are compressed. Ofc, they look much better uncompressed and in full resolution, so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare.


CCP Atropos wrote:
When they went in initially, raw from the rendering farm, they were about 2GB in size, which caused a few issues in client size Big smile

2GB for the entire uncompressed pack really isn't so bad. Since there are 68 unique backgrounds now, you're looking at 29MB per background. There are plenty of GPUs that can handle this, so something like an optional download for the people who want and can run it is certainly realistic. The nebulae featured in the Crucible wallpapers are cube maps. They're static images and not the actual CG renders of the nebulae.

Client size is the only limiting factor on CCP's end. Offer an optional download and everyone will be happy. If anything, I would think that CCP would like to have an option like this available for those who want it since they put so much hard work into these backgrounds to begin with.


I stand corrected.

When I had read that originally I skimmed it and it didn't sink in, my bad.

If they can make that an optional download without opening up a can of worms I think that's excellent. My current rig is getting a little long in the tooth to take advantage of it, but I'm putting in over time on the honey do list so hopefully that won't be an obstacle much longer. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#28 - 2011-11-25 22:18:07 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
I must admit the nebs do just look like pictures stuck in space, they dont look immersive, or cloud dusty. I thought you was supposed to be able to fly into them and be covered, it snot that case. sadly another half assed finished feature...nothing changes eh


you know what you see when you're flying inside of a nebula?


nothing. even as "the denser regions of space" nebulae are extremely sparse. your ships scanners would know, but your eyes would not.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Rixiu
PonyTek
#29 - 2011-11-25 22:42:46 UTC
Denidil wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
I must admit the nebs do just look like pictures stuck in space, they dont look immersive, or cloud dusty. I thought you was supposed to be able to fly into them and be covered, it snot that case. sadly another half assed finished feature...nothing changes eh


you know what you see when you're flying inside of a nebula?


nothing. even as "the denser regions of space" nebulae are extremely sparse. your ships scanners would know, but your eyes would not.


This. Afaik the "hubble-pictures" are shot with cameras that work outside the human visual spectrum and then edited so we can see them.

"Hubble's photo of the pillars is composed of 32 different images from four separate cameras in the Wide Field and Planetary Camera 2 on board Hubble.The photograph was made with light emitted by different elements in the cloud and appears as a different colour in the composite image: green for hydrogen, red for singly ionized sulphur and blue for double-ionized oxygen atoms." - Linky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_creation

Amsterdam Conversations
Doomheim
#30 - 2011-11-25 22:58:03 UTC
Just google nebulas, you'll see stars in front of so many of them.
met worst
Doomheim
#31 - 2011-11-25 23:04:07 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
The nebula's dark areas, the ones that are supposed to be unlit actually show all of the background stars.
That's is killing 3D look of nebulaes and they are looking like wallpapers...

Players wrote about that problem in Test Server Feedback forums for weeks but no one wants to talk to us... like some other problems too...

We are a little disappointed with this. The nebulae should look as how they're shown in this video. They should definitely possess some depth to them.

And we are disappointed with CCPs "communication" with players that are testing features on SiSi before releasing on TQ.
We just want to show you the problems... and if you cant fix it... just say it... don't ignore us.

If this is the biggest problem this week, I am happy for us all. Roll
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2011-11-25 23:14:33 UTC
Sure, OP, you just write some code to make the 2D nebula textures 3D objects and position these objects at distances of actually several light-years. Hmm.... Maybe you could make nebulae a 3D cloud of particles, too, so that you can faintly see stars within the nebulae. So, yeah, you'd pretty much have to scrap the nebulae right now.
I'm sure it'd be absolutely no problem.
Velarra
#33 - 2011-11-25 23:38:17 UTC
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
2GB for the entire uncompressed pack really isn't so bad. Since there are 68 unique backgrounds now, you're looking at 29MB per background. There are plenty of GPUs that can handle this, so something like an optional download for the people who want and can run it is certainly realistic. The nebulae featured in the Crucible wallpapers are cube maps. They're static images and not the actual CG renders of the nebulae.

Client size is the only limiting factor on CCP's end. Offer an optional download and everyone will be happy. If anything, I would think that CCP would like to have an option like this available for those who want it since they put so much hard work into these backgrounds to begin with.


These optional downloads would be great, particularly with optional lighting settings in the client: Dark, Medium & Bright. As currently the once dark/black regions of space now seem rather patchy, greyish and washed out.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#34 - 2011-11-26 15:36:20 UTC
Your ellipsis abuse is infuriating. It reminds me of those people who would talk with an odd rising inflection in their voice at the end of every sentence.

Katrina Oniseki
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2011-11-26 15:51:33 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If you actually THINK for 2 seconds.....the programming code and video card power needed to generate all the Particle stuff for actual 3D Gas Nebulae so that YOU can be 'physically encompassed' by them.........I do not want to PAY for that.

Indeed a ridiculous WHINE here............................

THEY LOOK FREAKING FANTASTIC.


Well, actually, it wasn't a big problem to run one million particles
on GeForce 6 Series already ... now scale that to modern times
and you get something like this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSWm_VImgFQ

Your argument bares any base. It's ******* easy to do volumetric clouds
and it's not a hard effort for nowadays GPUs to render a million particles,
which would already be enough for any amount of nebulaes on screen.

Ridiculous ... congratulations.
Oberine Noriepa
#36 - 2011-11-26 16:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Oberine Noriepa
Solstice Project wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If you actually THINK for 2 seconds.....the programming code and video card power needed to generate all the Particle stuff for actual 3D Gas Nebulae so that YOU can be 'physically encompassed' by them.........I do not want to PAY for that.

Indeed a ridiculous WHINE here............................

THEY LOOK FREAKING FANTASTIC.


Well, actually, it wasn't a big problem to run one million particles
on GeForce 6 Series already ... now scale that to modern times
and you get something like this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSWm_VImgFQ

Your argument bares any base. It's ******* easy to do volumetric clouds
and it's not a hard effort for nowadays GPUs to render a million particles,
which would already be enough for any amount of nebulaes on screen.

Ridiculous ... congratulations.

I have Krixtal on ignore. Maybe you should do the same since they never have a clue as to what they're talking about.

Really, when we're talking about the depth of the nebulae, we're talking about this:

Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Did I mention yet that the nebula's dark areas, the ones that are supposed to be unlit actually show the background stars?

Damn, someone messed up the alpha channels, ending up just turning black areas to transparent and now instead of dark dust obscuring stars they instead show everything behind.


Watch this video and look at the Gallente nebula. See those dark brown sections? In that video, they're very opaque, thus giving the nebula a good sense of depth. Now look at the same nebula on Singularity. Those brown sections are completely transparent when they shouldn't be. I mean, sure, it's perfectly okay to see stars in front of the nebula now that we have the new star field that shows nearby stars, but background stars should be blocked out, and in this case, they aren't.

Also notice the muddy nebula texture in that screenshot. I hate it. That muddiness is exactly why I want that 2GB nebula pack.

∃
Avila Cracko
#37 - 2011-11-26 17:44:19 UTC
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If you actually THINK for 2 seconds.....the programming code and video card power needed to generate all the Particle stuff for actual 3D Gas Nebulae so that YOU can be 'physically encompassed' by them.........I do not want to PAY for that.

Indeed a ridiculous WHINE here............................

THEY LOOK FREAKING FANTASTIC.


Well, actually, it wasn't a big problem to run one million particles
on GeForce 6 Series already ... now scale that to modern times
and you get something like this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSWm_VImgFQ

Your argument bares any base. It's ******* easy to do volumetric clouds
and it's not a hard effort for nowadays GPUs to render a million particles,
which would already be enough for any amount of nebulaes on screen.

Ridiculous ... congratulations.

I have Krixtal on ignore. Maybe you should do the same since they never have a clue as to what they're talking about.

Really, when we're talking about the depth of the nebulae, we're talking about this:

Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Did I mention yet that the nebula's dark areas, the ones that are supposed to be unlit actually show the background stars?

Damn, someone messed up the alpha channels, ending up just turning black areas to transparent and now instead of dark dust obscuring stars they instead show everything behind.


Watch this video and look at the Gallente nebula. See those dark brown sections? In that video, they're very opaque, thus giving the nebula a good sense of depth. Now look at the same nebula on Singularity. Those brown sections are completely transparent when they shouldn't be. I mean, sure, it's perfectly okay to see stars in front of the nebula now that we have the new star field that shows nearby stars, but background stars should be blocked out, and in this case, they aren't.

Also notice the muddy nebula texture in that screenshot. I hate it. That muddiness is exactly why I want that 2GB nebula pack.


Thnx... maybe ppl will understand you...

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#38 - 2011-11-26 18:16:56 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If you actually THINK for 2 seconds.....the programming code and video card power needed to generate all the Particle stuff for actual 3D Gas Nebulae so that YOU can be 'physically encompassed' by them.........I do not want to PAY for that.

Indeed a ridiculous WHINE here............................

THEY LOOK FREAKING FANTASTIC.


It's incredibly cheap and easy to simulate nebulaes, you don't even have to simulate every single last freaking atom in them which for some reason you assume. Otherwise how do you think other game's do smoke effects? They don't simulate down to atom's. It's just a mix of maths.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#39 - 2011-11-26 19:25:45 UTC
Quote:
Also, we didn't realize that the nebula's are 13 billion lightyears away, and that is why we can see all the stars of the galaxy in the dark areas.

Not sure if you were attempting to troll. The entire diameter of the milky way is just 100k ly across. The crab nebula is about 6500 ly away from earth, and about 11ly in diameter.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2011-11-26 19:33:01 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Denidil wrote:
you realize that stars can be in front of the dust lanes right?

No, we didn't realize that.

Also, we didn't realize that the nebula's are 13 billion lightyears away, and that is why we can see all the stars of the galaxy in the dark areas.


nebulae are not necessarily at the edge of the known universe meight

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar