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code permit holders...... safe from ganking?

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Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
#81 - 2014-10-06 13:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyyler DURden
Black Pedro wrote:
Tyyler DURden wrote:
admiral root wrote:

Ah, the old "I gank, honest, I just don't killboard" excuse. I see your main has exactly no hits on zkillboard, too.

I'm trying to understand the point of your statement here.
Correct me if I'm reading into this the wrong way, but are you saying that kills don't count unless they show up on some killboard?


I think it is clear that he is calling ashley Eoner a liar. Many people in this game claim things that are not true, and the good admiral is pointing to the fact he has heard such exaggerations of PvP prowess from others before.

And yes, kills count if they are not on a killboard somewhere. However, if you do not post them to a killboard, only you and the victim know for sure they happened, so do not be surprised when others doubt the veracity of your claims.

In the context of ganking permit holders, not using killboard makes no sense. The whole point of it is to discourage others from buying a permit by adding risk to displaying a permit in your bio. If you just silently kill permit holders, at best you will discourage that specific miner from renewing their permit, but you will have no effect on the new permit sales to others as they have no way to know of your actions.

Of course, if you are just ganking permit holders for your own pleasure, then killboard verification is of little consequence. But in this case you are really not engaged in a active public campaign against the New Order. Thus, I would suggest you stay off the forums with your claims of ganking, or at least not act surprised when some people doubt what you are saying.

However, we both know why you and ashley are hiding behind the no-killboard excuse - even together you have ganked just a handful of permit holders, a number that if verified would be a fraction of a percent of the CODE. aliiance verified kills. Not providing a number allows you use the uncertainty to present the your modest actions as more significant than they really are.

Don't get me wrong, even your isolated acts of rebelling do you credit as they are infinitely more than most carebears do - I just don't want any potential permit buyers to think there is an actual risk to holding a New Order permit from permit-gankers. Perhaps you guys will organize and that will change in the future, but for now that risk is essentially zero.


Man, posting from a phone can be frustrating.

Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#82 - 2014-10-06 13:29:46 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Let me ask y'all a serious question. Does ganking occur THIS MUCH that people have to post about it and James all the time?

I'm serious,because if you look at the forums it would seem like there is a Gank around every other corner. My 1st character was created on May 3, 2007 and in all that time I've had ONE gank attempted against me. I had an officer mod (albeit a very cheap on, like 60 mil) in a tech 1 hauler and a dude tried to gank me between Jita and Amarr. I got out in with like 80% hull left because I had a tank (triple tank lol). Me and the ganker had a laugh in local together after he realized that ym cargo wasn't that lucrative. I docked, repaired and haven't have a single problem in the 5 years since that happened. I've flown freighters and jump freighters since then, as well as missioned in pirate faction battleships in 0.5 systems.

Is it THIS difficult to take some minor precautions? Is a slight sense of personal responsibility for one's on safety and game enjoyment THAT hard to do. How hard is it to put a damage control and some defensive rigs on a mission ship to discourage gankers (for example as I am more mission runner than anything else)? I know that nothing is 100% but 7.5 years without a gank while flying ships other people would like to gank should tell y'all something.


Mission runners have a bad perspective on this. Mission runners are usually behind acceleration gates and it is a pain to scan them down and gank them. Plus its usually -EV. During my months of running highsec missions I faced 0 gank attempts, and only a couple of visits from "space trash collectors," who were hoping to bait me into shooting at them.

Ganks of haulers, miners, autopiloters, etc.... are far, far more common, since they require no scanning, have a higher probability of success, and are often +EV.


Nonsense. As I said, I own and fly freighters and have had a jump frieghter. I've set my Incursion Machariel's autopilot to a destination and went to work (hoping the incursion was still there when i got home). Still no ganks.

What I haven't done is fly stupid and expect no one to come after me in a competitive video game.

When I autopilot my Mach, it's striped of all valuable mods and ammo, and then passive/buffer tanked (shield and armor) as much as I can. I autopilot it to the next incursion focus because even a nano'd mach is a pain to fly 20+ jumps.

The fit is transported a nano and passive tanked transport that I fly manually when I get home (transports can't be scanned) because 20+ jumps in a nano transport is much less annoying. I've autopiloted both of my Providences empty and with some cargo all around high sec with zero ganks as well.

And WTF is this - + EV?

It's plain to see that you are obsessed with these gankers , which means that they have succeeded in doing the ONE thing they set out to do, which is to own people like you by getting on your nerves. You are exactly the kind of mark they look for. They don't affect me in any way what so ever in high sec, mainly because I proactively short circuit their efforts by thinking about what I'm doing before doing it.

Protecting myself and my stuff was literally the 1st thing I was taught by my mentor upon entering into the world of EVE 7 years ago. Seems like some folks never got that message.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#83 - 2014-10-06 13:34:50 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Veers Belvar]

Nonsense. As I said, I own and fly freighters and have had a jump frieghter. I've set my Incursion Machariel's autopilot to a destination and went to work (hoping the incursion was still there when i got home). Still no ganks.

What I haven't done is fly stupid and expect no one to come after me in a competitive video game.

When I autopilot my Mach, it's striped of all valuable mods and ammo, and then passive/buffer tanked (shield and armor) as much as I can. I autopilot it to the next incursion focus because even a nano'd mach is a pain to fly 20+ jumps.

The fit is transported a nano and passive tanked transport that I fly manually when I get home (transports can't be scanned) because 20+ jumps in a nano transport is much less annoying. I've autopiloted both of my Providences empty and with some cargo all around high sec with zero ganks as well.

And WTF is this - + EV?

It's plain to see that you are obsessed with these gankers , which means that they have succeeded in doing the ONE thing they set out to do, which is to own people like you by getting on your nerves. You are exactly the kind of mark they look for. They don't affect me in any way what so ever in high sec, mainly because I proactively short circuit their efforts by thinking about what I'm doing before doing it.

Protecting myself and my stuff was literally the 1st thing I was taught by my mentor upon entering into the world of EVE 7 years ago. Seems like some folks never got that message.



You realize they blow up empty ships at a huge loss right? So your "solutions' wouldn't actually help. What I do is have 3 identical fully fit incursion ships in different parts of space so I never need to fly through Uedama or Niarja with them. That makes me immune to the gankers.

Which does not change the fact that many haulers and other ships are getting ganked on a regular basis in those 2 systems. And obviously, as someone who cares about highsec, I have opinions on whether the game mechanics should facilitate such consequence free ganking (the new twist is apparently an ISBoxer controlled catalyst fleet in Uedama).

The gankers don't set out to affect your "nerves." They set out to blow up your ship, make you cry, and "harvest' your "tears." And they certainly have failed to do that to me!
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#84 - 2014-10-06 13:37:59 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
is there a group who actively and aggressively gank code permit holders?

Code ganks code permit holders. The excuse is either
1) You violated the code (but they will not say how, or just make something up, and of course there is no appeal).
2) You paid, but you did not pay us.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Black Pedro
Mine.
#85 - 2014-10-06 14:00:10 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
is there a group who actively and aggressively gank code permit holders?

Code ganks code permit holders. The excuse is either
1) You violated the code (but they will not say how, or just make something up, and of course there is no appeal).
2) You paid, but you did not pay us.


This is wrong. It is true that New Order agents have ganked permit holders, but only when they were not otherwise compliant with the Code. The permit does not allow you to AFK mine in an untanked ship - you still must obey the rest of the Code to operate in James 315's territory.

But as to your points:
1) I do, and I believe most agents do as well, routinely provide you with the specific reason you were ganked. Usually it is for not having a permit, but if it is for another reason they will tell you. But regardless, you are always entitled to an appeal - we have mechanisms in place for that - try The Code FAQ channel for one - or just go right to the top with your appeal to a CODE. diplomat or James 315 himself.
2) I have never heard of this before. Your permit from an agent of the New Order is good for a whole year and in all of highsec. I have heard of people sporting fake permits, but never of a valid one not being honoured because you paid someone else.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-10-06 14:13:55 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Your 5) falls under my 2) - respect the Code.

I make a big pile of poo on the code.
5) stands, because not only codies are ganking.
Not talking to you (codies) takes the humiliation part away from you.
The "bots" you talk of are mainly retrievers and ventures(! Beginner ship !) For more experienced miners, codies are laughing stock, with a narcistic "naive" leader.

You are not the center of the world and not the center of New Eden.
Obviously you believe your own propaganda.

Black Pedro wrote:

Ignoring us will do you no good

Serves me perfectly fine. Easy 500mil+ per day on high-sec ice.

Black Pedro wrote:

And no, as I outlined above in this thread, there is no significant risk of being targeted by anti-CODE. gankers. Or at least if a risk exists, it is extremely elusive and several orders of magnitude less than the chance of being ganked by an Agent of the New Order if you don't have a permit.


I wrote *might*, even when the chances are low. Since i am in for business and do not check for permits, i wan't shoot at those atm.
But my moods change, sometimes i mine / build, fly missions or go on corps-roams.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
ashley Eoner
#87 - 2014-10-06 20:22:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
admiral root wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
My gank alts have empty KBs too because I don't give a rats ass about the epenor..


Ah, the old "I gank, honest, I just don't killboard" excuse. I see your main has exactly no hits on zkillboard, too.

Oh do tell me who my main is.

I have a few posts on the KB cause some of those I've killed have their API setup for whatever reason. I just don't understand why people care about some silly website.

More importantly for me I'd rather not have a "paper trail" of kills for people to follow. Killboards are stupid because you're giving away information about yourself in the hopes that your epenor will get bigger. It's just dumb.


Black Pedro wrote:
I think it is clear that he is calling ashley Eoner a liar. Many people in this game claim things that are not true, and the good admiral is pointing to the fact he has heard such exaggerations of PvP prowess from others before.

And yes, kills count if they are not on a killboard somewhere. However, if you do not post them to a killboard, only you and the victim know for sure they happened, so do not be surprised when others doubt the veracity of your claims.

In the context of ganking permit holders, not using killboard makes no sense. The whole point of it is to discourage others from buying a permit by adding risk to displaying a permit in your bio. If you just silently kill permit holders, at best you will discourage that specific miner from renewing their permit, but you will have no effect on the new permit sales to others as they have no way to know of your actions.

Of course, if you are just ganking permit holders for your own pleasure, then killboard verification is of little consequence. But in this case you are really not engaged in a active public campaign against the New Order. Thus, I would suggest you stay off the forums with your claims of ganking, or at least not act surprised when some people doubt what you are saying.

However, we both know why you and ashley are hiding behind the no-killboard excuse - even together you have ganked just a handful of permit holders, a number that if verified would be a fraction of a percent of the CODE. aliiance verified kills. Not providing a number allows you use the uncertainty to present the your modest actions as more significant than they really are.

Don't get me wrong, even your isolated acts of rebelling do you credit as they are infinitely more than most carebears do - I just don't want any potential permit buyers to think there is an actual risk to holding a New Order permit from permit-gankers. Perhaps you guys will organize and that will change in the future, but for now that risk is essentially zero.

Your reading comprehension is clearly at the fail level. I only claimed I ganked some because they had a permit not that i'm on some sort of anti-code campaign or any such nonsense. I also only stated that I know a few others who have done the same. Stating that a few people have ganked permit holders off hand isn't a statement of anything greater. Your insistence on taking what I said to a level that clearly wasn't intended shows quite a bit about you.

I don't really care if you don't believe me. That's proven by my lack of epeening in this thread.

The real risk for permit holders is from code as they don't care if you have a permit or not. It's all an act to keep from being banned for griefing.


Frankly the biggest problem with ganking permit holders would be finding them. There's so few actually actually showing a permit in their bio that I wouldn't consider such a war to be worth anyone's time.
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#88 - 2014-10-06 21:10:33 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Quote:
just evaluating the cost/benefit of a permit? Because .... I can assure you that your 10M ISK/ year is a good investment in safeguarding your assets.
No.


Pascal would of ponied up the 10M isk.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-10-08 18:07:19 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
I believe


What you believe is your own (codie) propaganda.
Since i started EvE i was warned about the dangers and i visited all the sources i could get. Later on i stumbled over codies in chat and i checked everything out following the mb website and others.

I had comments from code leadership, where they self commited (indirectly but clearly) that they give a **** on any commitment.
So the reliable thing still is: You do not make business with code.

I could write a whole article about the AT fail and what a disaster for code it still is. What code misses are really smart people. The actual leader is by far not as smart as he needs to be.
Bear
My prognosis?
code is dying.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#90 - 2014-10-08 18:29:12 UTC
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
I wonder how many new players, having the CODE "new player experience", haven't bothered to resub.

Probably quite a few.


Nah, such a guy needs to be dusted off and picked up by a real corp. That takes him out shooting. Big smile
Black Pedro
Mine.
#91 - 2014-10-09 12:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
La Rynx wrote:

What you believe is your own (codie) propaganda.
Since i started EvE i was warned about the dangers and i visited all the sources i could get. Later on i stumbled over codies in chat and i checked everything out following the mb website and others.

I had comments from code leadership, where they self commited (indirectly but clearly) that they give a **** on any commitment.
So the reliable thing still is: You do not make business with code.

I could write a whole article about the AT fail and what a disaster for code it still is. What code misses are really smart people. The actual leader is by far not as smart as he needs to be.
Bear
My prognosis?
code is dying.


You can believe what ever you like about the New Order but the facts are not on your side. Share purchases continue to pour in and the non-compliant continue to explode at an amazing rate. Just look at CODE's work in Uedama over the last week - so much glorious destruction - and proof the New Order is growing ever-stronger.

I agree you do not "make business with the code" with a permit. The New Order is not selling the right to AFK mine in untanked ships - we are working toward a better highsec for everyone : a highsec where players actually play the game, where risk vs. reward is enforced, and there is a highsec full of conflict (AKA content) which is the essence of Eve. Your 10M ISK permit is just a badge advertising to New Eden that that you understand this and have become Code compliant, as well as that you support our good work. You still must remain compliant with the Code. If you would like to do actual business with the New Order, I suggest you become a shareholder.

The fact is that if you do not buy a permit you are at increased risk of having your pixels explode courtesy of a Knight of the New Order. We can debate the magnitude of the risk, but the killboard summaries I linked above shows that it is very real, and therefore it is up to each highsec resident to decide their risk tolerance and as such, whether they should get compliant with Code. In my opinion, 10M ISK is a trivial amount and therefore getting a permit is one of the best bargains in all of New Eden, but others may conclude differently. That is their right of course, but if you choose the path of a rebel and get exploded, please don't come to the forums and moan for someone else to stop the New Order (like this thread), or petition CCP to nerf highsec PvP even more because you made a bad decision and lost your ship. Just HTFU.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#92 - 2014-10-26 09:45:58 UTC
Is that another ALT of DJ?

Black Pedro wrote:
You can believe what ever you like about the New Order but the facts are not on your side.


Oh please, where ever facts are they are NOT in favor of CODE.

permit tank is best tank?

bla bla killboard bla bla this, bla bla that.

code = #REKT
code says a lot (propaganda) but they do not act as they talk.

save your efforts,
You can not repair your reputation anymore. All done.


Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#93 - 2014-10-26 17:16:49 UTC
Quote:
13. Spamming is prohibited.

Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words “first”, “go back to insert other game name" and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post, or the practice of “thread necromancy” which involved bumping of old threads for no justifiable reason.

No reason to bump this thread back to the front. The last reply does not add any value to this thread and will only incite further flaming and trolling. Thread locked.

ISD Decoy

Captain

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