These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Dreiden Kisada
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3621 - 2014-10-02 17:02:56 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Dreiden Kisada wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

- Yup, Masterplan is doing some fine-tuning of warp logic to make this sort of thing smoother. There's no good way to warp 20 titans to a gate at once without bumping, though.



So, you just said that you know your plan won't work, but you're going through with it anyway.

CCP Greyscale wrote:








I think he said jumping 20 titans to a gate is a bad idea. If this is the only way you can figure out how to engage an enemy (20+ titans) then YOUR gameplan won't work.

You know, this just reminded me of a quote - "We're not trying to ruin the game, we're trying to ruin your game"

Let me see if I can update it a bit.. Hmmmm.....


"CCP isn't trying to break the game, they're trying to break your game"

How does that feel??? I can only imagine.



Well, according to his posts earlier, they want to have groups of caps moving around through gates. And when doing that causes ships to go bumping off each other, that means it doesn't work.
Lydia Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3622 - 2014-10-02 17:03:13 UTC
So, an elegant solution to the BLOPS problem would be to allow jumping back into the system you last jumped from to incur no fatigue for BLOPS and BLOPS bridge capable ships. It neatly keeps the effective range of a BLOPS drop within one jump, and the activity is sufficiently slow paced that you'll see a good portion of your fatigue disappear by the time your next target is found.
Isha Subula
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3623 - 2014-10-02 17:03:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:


Maybe in your eyes.

But then again, you're wrong about basically everything, always.


Feel free to ask red frog what they think of this change.



Yes Red Frog pretty much looking at packing it in. Just to hard to keep a service like that up. But, was the service ever really a good thing? Being able to get 500 Caracals delivered to deep null in 20 min with fits from jita? Was just to easy before.

These services will still exist just be way more expensive. I think this has a indirect impact on the isk printer that is ishtar ratting in null. The influx of isk has devalued everything. Just check PLEX prices. Too easy to get 1 bill with 3 accounts afktaring all day.
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
#3624 - 2014-10-02 17:04:01 UTC
Fleet Fight Notification Tool: You will have to sort of roll this up now. No way to know where fights are really going to be since a lot of capitals will be slow boating to the target system. Might need to re-balance how your nodes are operating geographically now that fights could happen quite away from whatever timer is about to pop.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka

Javajunky
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3625 - 2014-10-02 17:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Javajunky
Isha Subula wrote:
Sally Hermoine wrote:
CCp i implore you to remove the restriction on Jump freighter range , this is not a whine post but listen to the clever arguments against it there is no justification for removing nullsec logistics. If you have ever lived in nullsec and took part in freighting ops you would know what it means to do this. We NEED high sec access to survive , I can handle trying to defend our own turf and will give it up gladly too but being cut off from eves market will make it impossible to exist out here. Don't listen to the high sec ppl egging you on they have no idea what it means to keep a market in nullsec well stocked with all the modules/guns/ammo neccessary just to survive.

And then we are expected to earn isk? Not possible anymore no where to sell goods noway to move it , minerals are dying in price and will only get worse, for high sec also as noone will buy caps off the market now. They will be just be made locally (which i dont mind too) but the market is gonna go way down, also losing lots of subscribers will just make matters worse. So yeah im not happy :(



and having industrialists in null is a bad thing? Being able to move large quantities of ships, mods whatever from high to null is a part of the problem. Now null pvp'ers will have to stop treating miners like crap and actually accept that they need them to survive.


In terms of revitalizing the null sec landscape, while yes this theoretically increasing the value of the miner. But it makes it harder for those smaller groups to establish and defend the beach head they create for themselves. Not really a goon headache since we can roll 30-40 JF's (12-15m3 per run), this becomes more about a who's got more logistics capabilities. The Rorqual / JF nerf favors the big blocks in terms of defending space.

Keeping JF/Rorquals in the equation, it's certainly a way to establish more industry but you have to find enough people that want to do industry in null sec and that's not a big number. Leaving JF's and Rorquals out of the equation would still achieve the PVP balancing act people want without gimping the smaller guys ability to support any beach head initiatives.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3626 - 2014-10-02 17:05:30 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Why pilot specific (multiple pilots can move one dread across the universe pony express style), instead of hull specific (removes ability to move dread across universe)?



Because hulls can be repackaged.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3627 - 2014-10-02 17:05:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
X Gallentius wrote:
Why pilot specific (multiple pilots can move one dread across the universe pony express style), instead of hull specific (removes ability to move dread across universe)?



Most likely because repackaging a ship remove it's unique ID so you could reset the timer.

Jenn aSide wrote:


Because hulls can be repackaged.



Stop using less words to be faster!!!
Charlotte Ginger
Death Troopers
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#3628 - 2014-10-02 17:06:08 UTC
Breaking Jump Freighters only plays in to the Big alliances hands....

Regardless of the Range changes, the timer effect on the JF will break small corps/alliances.


Large ones will have multiple JF holding chars and cyno alts.
Trade the JF to a diff char and carry on down the line.


Small alliances once again suffer the pain.


Good idea for everything else, Abominal for logistics
The Ironfist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3629 - 2014-10-02 17:06:40 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The Ironfist wrote:
CCP Greyscale Do you guys have someone asking the question "is this fun?" during the development process? Just how much time do you think people are willing to spend on a game that is not fun at all. Right now logistics from deep null-sec to empire spaces takes about half an hour. After this change it will be around 7 hours do you really think people are willing to spend that amount of time on a game for literally no progress or reward?

I'm sure this is just a first draft but seriously ask the question is this fun? Will this be fun gameplay? I look forward to your reply.



Is this fun?? Heck yeah (in the words of my golden retriever) This is the best day ever (wag wag wag). Now did they ask "Is this fun for Ironfist?" it's pretty obvious by your post that this change is not custom crafted for your personal view of eve enjoyment. So, let's be fair and let my 'best day ever' cancel out your 'this sux' and call it balanced.

I'm thinking they are banking on people NOT being willing to spend all that time making no progress. I think they are also banking on the average eve player being average and adapting. I think they are also banking on that adaptation NOT ending with a big blue donut.

If you see this as you being personally kicked in the junk for the greater good of the game, then please sit down, relax and the pain will subside. In a few days or weeks you'll be able to get up and walk around in the new normal. If you don't like it, feel free to adapt. It probably won't be as a part of team Supercap Win.


I don't mind we'll just take a region closer to empire to allow our builds to keep building titans and supers for us no big deal. Sorry Providence you'll be evicted.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3630 - 2014-10-02 17:07:14 UTC
With these changes, will you be increasing the availability of mexallon in nullsec?
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
The Bastion
#3631 - 2014-10-02 17:07:38 UTC
Initially I wasn't that concerned with Fatigue so long as Jump Freighters where exempt but the more I think about it, the more it becomes a bad idea, the more it hurts the smaller non-coalition aligned Alliances and the more it promotes Coalitions rather than breaks them up. Let me explain.

The numbers claim that it will be faster to move a Capital/Super Capital fleet over a long distance through a gate Network rather than jumping them. This means you're going to require a sub-Cap escort fleet to accompany you because they will be vulnerable to attack without one. So who exactly does this favour? Is this going to prevent CFC or N3 from applying force projection? On the contrary, this will barely hamper them in the slightest because they have more than enough sub-Cap pilots in most time zones to accompany their Cap/Super Cap fleets. But a smaller organisation that is Cap/Super heavy but lacks a lot of members is going to be hampered by this. They won't be able to move their fleets as easily or as quickly because they cannot form a suitably sized escort. It's the 'little guy' whose force projection is affected by this change, not the major Coalitions.

So what's the inevitable consequence of non-aligned alliances having less force projection? They either align themselves with a coalition or they leave 0.0 and go live in low sec where force projection is on a much smaller scale. Far from harming CFC and N3, you actually bolster their numbers because a Super Cap pilot who likes using his ship, is more likely to go join Goons or NC or PL where he has the protection of a sub cap fleet. You need to put this plan on hold and consider the wider, long term implications of such a drastic change because all too often you've not done so and months, years down the line your decisions have created more problems than they solved.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3632 - 2014-10-02 17:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
e: beaten like a rented mule

X Gallentius wrote:
Why pilot specific (multiple pilots can move one dread across the universe pony express style), instead of hull specific (removes ability to move dread across universe)?


Because of the way Eve works internally, you can't put the restriction on the ship. A ship can be repackaged, which eliminates all uniquely identifying characteristics of the ship (including a jump timer of any kind.) People would just run unrigged ships up jump corridors all day, repackaging at every hop, then rig for the fight.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
#3633 - 2014-10-02 17:08:03 UTC
For those entities still wishing to base in Null, I forsee their capital production shifting to lowsec areas just due to the time of travel requirements for capitals getting delivered to staging points.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka

Volmyr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3634 - 2014-10-02 17:08:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Why pilot specific (multiple pilots can move one dread across the universe pony express style), instead of hull specific (removes ability to move dread across universe)?



Because hulls can be repackaged.


unless say there was a mechanic that wont let you re-package unless your jump drive is cooled off...
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3635 - 2014-10-02 17:09:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Why pilot specific (multiple pilots can move one dread across the universe pony express style), instead of hull specific (removes ability to move dread across universe)?



Because hulls can be repackaged.

The game already checks for damage, I imagine it wouldn't be impossible to check for hull jump fatigue and disallow repackaging
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3636 - 2014-10-02 17:09:46 UTC
Volmyr wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Why pilot specific (multiple pilots can move one dread across the universe pony express style), instead of hull specific (removes ability to move dread across universe)?



Because hulls can be repackaged.


unless say there was a mechanic that wont let you re-package unless your jump drive is cooled off...


Which will be a lot more work than just having it on the pilot.
Hower S'jet
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3637 - 2014-10-02 17:09:57 UTC
Hm....jump timers. This reminds me of those browser based games where u have to pay to do something quickly...only here u will pay for ur wait only.

I don't care about those changes.
CCP haven't listened to indy community much...so im glad that now i won't have 2-3 BOBs droped on me when im mining or hauling.

It is a shame that after 7 years of play my new carrier will get useless for me.
Short jump range? It is ok, but timer and so called "Fatigue" r just BS (this is a god damned future...i don't think that some fatigue is gonna stop a titan pilot)
If those changes start to ruin so called "sandbox" wich is actualy became a "god game" and CCP is driving it...ill stop my Subscribtion.

Small but frequent changes some 1 said?!
Yes...but those changes r coming head on and unpolished.
Instead of tweaking game play...maybe it is better to polish the world uve created...for example full physical models for ships, stations, gates, asteroids. So if u "BUMP" into them...u can realy feel it by loosing ur shield or breaking some mods.

P.S. no offense, but -> http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/dgaf-121.jpg
TerminalSamurai Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#3638 - 2014-10-02 17:10:07 UTC
Querns wrote:
e: beaten like a rented mule

X Gallentius wrote:
Why pilot specific (multiple pilots can move one dread across the universe pony express style), instead of hull specific (removes ability to move dread across universe)?


Because of the way Eve works internally, you can't put the restriction on the ship. A ship can be repackaged, which eliminates all uniquely identifying characteristics of the ship (including a jump timer of any kind.) People would just run unrigged ships up jump corridors all day, repackaging at every hop, then rig for the fight.


So disable repacking of ships that have a 'jump timer' attributed to it.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#3639 - 2014-10-02 17:11:02 UTC
Karash Amerius wrote:
For those entities still wishing to base in Null, I forsee their capital production shifting to lowsec areas just due to the time of travel requirements for capitals getting delivered to staging points.

LOL. No.

Unless you mean "wishing" as in an aspiration to one day be in Null. Those currently in Null have too high a production advantage from Kronos to want to move to the substandard facilities in low.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#3640 - 2014-10-02 17:11:36 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
How do you nerf 30 remote repping carriers convoying (with a couple of them in triage) without totally eliminating remote repping?

You bubble them, and batphone! Then just wait for 8000 years till they jump in and wreck the havoc!