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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Arrendis
TK Corp
#3501 - 2014-10-02 16:18:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Ah well there it is. Guess I do have a reason to train caps after all!


And we shall call it 'BaltecFleet II: Even Baller'
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH
Scumlords
#3502 - 2014-10-02 16:18:09 UTC
[quote=Obsidian Hawk]Ok so here is my post again summarizing everything.

But first let me say, everyone that sells their mains and cancels their accounts before this lands is an idiot and will regret doing that, because these changes ARE NOT FINAL CCP always reserves the right to change things before deployment.

That being said im going to list off the list of compromises and counter proposal to CCP


1. Jump range issue.

5 ly cap is bad. We can all agree on that.

Idea Solution #1 - scaled jump range for each type of ship I will list max ranges. which should be fair. And to keep it simple i used whole numbers.

Carriers, JF, Rorquals - 12 LY

Dreads - 10 LY

Super Carriers - 7 ly

Titans - 5 ly


No No No

if you lose the 5ly limit it totally defeats the power projection nerf...

what the 5ly min it does is basically set hard time limits for a force to respond.... this 5ly limit means that there will be a min 6min time to use capitals if they want to jump them in farther than 5ly..this is crucial....

if you increase the 5ly then nothing really changes....it allows the current power projection to stay intact...forcing a capital group to either BE LOCAL aka within 5ly.... OR they have to take time to respond.... which means local forces can do what they need to do without being blobbed....since they know the enemy has to wait 6min..or be slowboating to their destination....

this 5ly restriction is a HUGE tactical advantage for small groups...and will force the current power blocs to really think about where they place their forces..if they place them to far away,...they will find smaller groups ninja RFing all thier assets that are local to them..and the enemy will find they are too slow to respond unless they themselfs have a local defence force..

If anything the 5ly should be reduced even further..perhaps 3ly ..basically the smaller the "LY" radius the further it goes to promote locality. And helps local forces defend and attack things locally






Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3503 - 2014-10-02 16:18:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Retar Aveymone
Ok, assuming a 15ly jump:

15LY range:
Jump, get fatigue of 2.5. Wait 15m, fatigue is less than 1.

5LY range:
First jump, timer of 1.5m, fatigue of 1.5. Wait five minutes, fatigue =1
Third jump, timer of 1.5m, fatigue of 1.5. Wait five minutes, fatigue =1
Third jump, timer of 1.5m, fatigue of 1.5. Wait five minutes, fatigue =1

welp the midpointing is indeed just an annoyance and the fatigue drives the wait

i was wrong, my apologies.

edit: though this does mean the distance (by time traveled) is now 5x what it was before as a jump used to take about a minute, all told (with station midpointing).
Murauke
Spacers
#3504 - 2014-10-02 16:18:50 UTC
Change cyno mechanic not the act of jumping.
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3505 - 2014-10-02 16:18:52 UTC
luredivino wrote:
So basically what you are saying is that if you have an emergency, you now are guarenteed to lose a multibillion isk ship. My fire alarm is going off, but I have to sit at my computer for 3 hours and wait this absurd timer off or lose something that took me 40 hours to get the isk for. Cant log off because combat timer. Well, might as well let my building burn down.


OMG you could not think of a more pathetic excuse? Maybe a baby dying ?

So right now if the fire alarm goes off you would first jump your cap out, park it at a pos, probably even wait out your aggro timer and then head out for the fire station? Somehow I think your colleagues will be long gone by then and you will find yourself in the need of a new job should anyone EVER find out.

It's good to know how some people set their priorities......

Really /facedesk
C09
#3506 - 2014-10-02 16:19:45 UTC
How about a little jump drive for Orca? Is too boring to sell Orca's every time anyone need to change home in low sec because of can' t move out and re buy another Orca........ pfffffffhh ..... And why the Orca still have large rigs instead of capital? Is or is not a capital ship?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#3507 - 2014-10-02 16:20:09 UTC
luredivino wrote:
So basically what you are saying is that if you have an emergency, you now are guarenteed to lose a multibillion isk ship. My fire alarm is going off, but I have to sit at my computer for 3 hours and wait this absurd timer off or lose something that took me 40 hours to get the isk for. Cant log off because combat timer. Well, might as well let my building burn down.


Might I suggest that if you're worrying about your imaginary space pixels while the building is burning down, you have reached a level of obsession with the game that is about to become directly unhealthy and are probably better off not returning?
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3508 - 2014-10-02 16:20:32 UTC
Riddari Prowler wrote:
Does CCP think most of the people saying they like this change in this thread are serious? Or do they understand that majority of them are just trolling?


Human beings who have invested themselves in an idea will tend to lend a lot more credence to people that agree with them, whether those people are trolling them or not.

So most likely they still believe this is a good change with some minor patches (perhaps a cap on fatigue and further reducing the JF nerf, and possibly putting a cooldown timer on death cloning).

However I'm fairly certain their innate human nature will prevent them from seeing the true nature of their proposal - changing game play by making the game more boring (aka long timers on normal player activity that leads to fights & content) is at its heart a malicious concept and is nothing but bad for EVE.

Adding more periods of ship spinning to EVE is a *BAD* idea. A *really* bad idea.

Want to nerf force projection - great. But find a way to do it without mandating ship spinning or don't do it at all.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#3509 - 2014-10-02 16:21:05 UTC
There is actually another "solution" that might fix the issue with "cyno alt" issue.

maybe... just maybe... allow people to jump into a system without a cyno. Give people the option of whether to jump using the cyno as a specific targeting beacon, or by targeting the destination system itself and jumping into it without a cyno (lets say the target in this case would be the big celestial (you can target a planet or the sun as a cyno point), and you can jump into the system at or around 50 to 100km from that celestial).

it is not a direct on-top hop like a cyno beacon, but you would be able to travel without having the cyno alt in system (a scout is very advisable). You'd remove almost 90% of logistic issues as there would be no definitive need for cynos, fuel, alts and ships. A scout would be all you would need if you are doing it alone and are "brave".

You give people the option. Jump blindly into a system without a specific targeting point (a cyno), or use a traditional cyno as a targeting point.

Its give and take, and I prefer this more to having to create a network of 100 cyno alts, all with generators, noob ships and fuel. Id rather take a stealth bomber or a expedition ship, scout the system then decide whether its safe to jump without a generator, or to get a generator and jump in. I would add something to the notification bar for everybody in the system "a shockwave has ripped through the system at planet/sun". People already have the notification of when a cyno goes up (you can see the thing). This would pretty much be no difference.

You turn Jumping into a logistics move, or a tactical move.

But you give people the option. That is more a viable idea.

Summary: You can jump drive blindly into a system without a scout now, but your destination is not exact. Cyno bulbs still work as normal for a precise (on point) jump.

Just an idea since people are flooding the forums with them.

Yaay!!!!

Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3510 - 2014-10-02 16:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Retar Aveymone
Riddari Prowler wrote:
Does CCP think most of the people saying they like this change in this thread are serious? Or do they understand that majority of them are just trolling?

well no, they're not trolling, they do like the change

they just like it for the sole reason they think it hurts us and they want that not that they understand anything about it
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3511 - 2014-10-02 16:22:02 UTC
May Ke wrote:
Additionally: The blocs need to be broken up, this is important, but is ultimately down to the leaders of those blocs themselves.


They had their chance.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3512 - 2014-10-02 16:22:27 UTC
I'm not sure what imaginary world you live in that you think making null sec supply logistics difficult will some how increase null sec residency or newbies moving to null or new alliances for that matter but it seems to defy any kind of logic. I think you seriously need to reconsider separating supply ships and combat ships from these changes.

The bigger Alliances will be able to require more people to train up jump skills and move goods and material around with multiple toons jumping the same ship to avoid large timers. The people that will be affected by this the most are newer and smaller players and Alliances which are from what I gather the exact people you are hoping to attract out there.

I would at this point like to note that I live close enough to high sec that this will not affect my personal play style. It will only affect how I help others which is typically newer players looking to get their feet wet in null.

Every player's time has a certain value. If you need 20 PvPers to escort a couple of industrial ships every time you want to move something through null then each and every one of the 20 PvPers will need to be cut in on the profits or they'll be off ratting for 20+ million isk bounty ticks.

One way or another that support is costing you Billions of isk per hour. Those costs will eventually be passed on to the cost of the end product which means deep null will be dead. The only people living in deep null will be the ones who don't mind working their way back there with a bunch of BPCs and being stuck out there in a system with a station flying T1 ships with meta 0 mods and having to build everything themselves. There will be no local markets nor players to sell to if you wanted to try and start a market.

I'm not saying that no one will adapt and that no one will live in deep null. What I am saying is that the general trend will likely be less people living in null in general with the rate of attrition being proportional to the distance from high sec.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#3513 - 2014-10-02 16:22:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Not entirely sure if this will work but my dream of roaming dreads just took a big step forwards. Anyway, 1.7 mil EHP, 3au warp speed, a metric fuckton of firepower, half a minute to align (two nano take that down to 22 sec). Frankly if I can get this things align time down to around a battleships I may use it in baltec fleet in an ultimate show of stubbornness. I shall call it monkfish.

CCP Grayscale what have you done?

Now throw some Hyperspatial Accelerators in the lows and bring a couple carriers with you to refit to tank on the fly. Really, this isn't going to work out how CCP thinks it is.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3514 - 2014-10-02 16:22:52 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
luredivino wrote:
So basically what you are saying is that if you have an emergency, you now are guarenteed to lose a multibillion isk ship. My fire alarm is going off, but I have to sit at my computer for 3 hours and wait this absurd timer off or lose something that took me 40 hours to get the isk for. Cant log off because combat timer. Well, might as well let my building burn down.


Might I suggest that if you're worrying about your imaginary space pixels while the building is burning down, you have reached a level of obsession with the game that is about to become directly unhealthy and are probably better off not returning?


Gotta agree with this, the ship is only worth a few billion in not real money.
Murauke
Spacers
#3515 - 2014-10-02 16:23:02 UTC
Change the Cyno mechanic.
Amator Phasma
Event Horizon Ships
#3516 - 2014-10-02 16:23:25 UTC
Thank you @CCPTwisted
Arrendis
TK Corp
#3517 - 2014-10-02 16:23:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
C09 wrote:
How about a little jump drive for Orca? Is too boring to sell Orca's every time anyone need to change home in low sec because of can' t move out and re buy another Orca........ pfffffffhh ..... And why the Orca still have large rigs instead of capital? Is or is not a capital ship?


It's not. The Orca-class Industrial Command Ship is a Large hull. The Extra-Large (ie: Capital) Hull from Outer Ring is the Rorqual-classCapital Industrial Ship. You will also notice that the Industrial Command Ship requires neither Advanced Spaceship Command, nor Capital Ships to be trained skills.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3518 - 2014-10-02 16:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Komi Toran wrote:

Now throw some Hyperspatial Accelerators in the lows and bring a couple carriers with you to refit to tank on the fly. Really, this isn't going to work out how CCP thinks it is.


It only needs the one rig and the implants. Using the MWD effectively it can theoretically take part in cruiser fleetsTwisted

Using Hyperspatial Accelerators it will however warp at 6.59au, so 1au faster than assault frigatesShocked
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#3519 - 2014-10-02 16:25:12 UTC
Raelaem Eudain wrote:
Just think, for a second... stay with me here

1 world/planet with military forces requires the world powers to project their assets all around the globe. Requires them to carefully plan and place assets where they think they need them. Bases of operations/forward operating posts foreign posts with allies.

Oh jeez thats us IRL OH HEY! So why shouldn't a virtual reality require the same amount of care and planning for its military...

Just saying


Cuz it's not a job?
Sally Hermoine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3520 - 2014-10-02 16:26:55 UTC
CCp i implore you to remove the restriction on Jump freighter range , this is not a whine post but listen to the clever arguments against it there is no justification for removing nullsec logistics. If you have ever lived in nullsec and took part in freighting ops you would know what it means to do this. We NEED high sec access to survive , I can handle trying to defend our own turf and will give it up gladly too but being cut off from eves market will make it impossible to exist out here. Don't listen to the high sec ppl egging you on they have no idea what it means to keep a market in nullsec well stocked with all the modules/guns/ammo neccessary just to survive.

And then we are expected to earn isk? Not possible anymore no where to sell goods noway to move it , minerals are dying in price and will only get worse, for high sec also as noone will buy caps off the market now. They will be just be made locally (which i dont mind too) but the market is gonna go way down, also losing lots of subscribers will just make matters worse. So yeah im not happy :(