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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
ugly inside
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3241 - 2014-10-02 14:02:13 UTC
Johnathan Coffey wrote:
Dave Kitaro wrote:
Someone explain how 'jump fatigue' works according to the laws of physics in New Eden? Like, what are the actual mechanics of it?

Space magic.

omg i pee.. i lulz
JC Anderson
#3242 - 2014-10-02 14:02:59 UTC
Dave Kitaro wrote:
Someone explain how 'jump fatigue' works according to the laws of physics in New Eden? Like, what are the actual mechanics of it?

I'm assuming it will end up being something along the lines of jumping causing quite a bit of stress on a ships systems and perhaps even the capsuleer directly.

Can't really think of anything else.
ugly inside
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3243 - 2014-10-02 14:03:35 UTC
Min Mar wrote:
Dave Kitaro wrote:
Someone explain how 'jump fatigue' works according to the laws of physics in New Eden? Like, what are the actual mechanics of it?

It's like truck driving: The law says you have to stop and take naps. Same principle applied to internet spaceships. It's so logical, I don't see why they didn't do it sooner....

i guess you could say its LOGIcal to be in the business of LOGIstics?
Dirk Solaris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3244 - 2014-10-02 14:04:13 UTC
It's about time nullies see a little pain from all the gain of the past numerous expansions.
Vinyl Scrattch
Goonswarm Federation
#3245 - 2014-10-02 14:05:34 UTC
What if clone jumping and death cloning shared a timer? Make changing your medical station trigger the clone jumping cooldown.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3246 - 2014-10-02 14:06:03 UTC
Dirk Solaris wrote:
It's about time nullies see a little pain from all the gain of the past numerous expansions.

Guess what, if it's followed up by a sov system which doesn't suck, then we're all going to be all for it. Well, maybe with the exclusion of PL, NCdot etc, but can't win them all I guess. vOv
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3247 - 2014-10-02 14:06:43 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:

Nope. The mechanics lead us to the "blue butthole of stagnation". It was always in the cards, and there's been plenty of people who've been saying for YEARS that we're heading into what we're seeing now (me included, I've been railing for a sov system fix for more than 3 years, probably closer to 4 now).

You can blame the players all you want, but you'll be dead wrong. They're just utilizing the ruleset as far as they can to win. It's CCP's responsibility to make sure the ruleset ensure a lively and vibrant game, not the players'.

So you're saying that B0tlord and similar pacts are part of the game mechanics? Where can one find them, there's no such option under 'business' or 'social'. As for the 'burnout due to grind' thing we saw how that panned out for Test in Fountain and Delve.
Frostys Virpio
Goonswarm Federation
#3248 - 2014-10-02 14:07:51 UTC
ugly inside wrote:
Min Mar wrote:
Dave Kitaro wrote:
Someone explain how 'jump fatigue' works according to the laws of physics in New Eden? Like, what are the actual mechanics of it?

It's like truck driving: The law says you have to stop and take naps. Same principle applied to internet spaceships. It's so logical, I don't see why they didn't do it sooner....

i guess you could say its LOGIcal to be in the business of LOGIstics?

The RL truckers dealing with those laws aren't doing logistic work? You will either spread the load more onto more player to do logistic work or lose player because you are starving at the end of a small logistical chain until your current setup can keep up. The people sharing the load the best will be able to keep themself at a higher level than those who rely on too few dudes.
Lady Patricia
Pyro Tech Industries
#3249 - 2014-10-02 14:07:55 UTC
when i think about it the changes are fine for me.
i'm just sorry for my customers as they will have to pay a bit more to get their ships delivered, as it will take me ages to do so..

i guess within 2 weeks i can't do it at all any more as my timer will be somewhat around 10 years ^^

if you wonder what i sell: http://capships.comTwisted

Pyro Tech Industries

The capital production specialists

State War Academy
Caldari State
#3250 - 2014-10-02 14:09:28 UTC
I'm probably going to recap what a lot of other people have said, but it needs to be pounded in deep into the minds of those at CCP.

The way this is being handled is just flat out wrong. It's market crushing on many levels. Forget about coalition/alliance/corp killing for just one moment and look at the overnight subscription drops that have taken place because of this. Not of new players, but of old time players in this game. I've only been playing Even since Fall of 2007, so no CCP Greyscale, I don't know what it was like in the "good ol' days". I took some time off after flying sub-caps and when I came back in 2010 I made it my goal to fly capital ships. This involved building a second character (and account) to build my capital ship and a third to move all of the parts Over the past 2.5 years I took that transition over to wanting to fly the bigger capital ships, supercap and titans. And over the past 18 months, some of the largest battles in the history of MMO's took place in this wonderful world we call Eve pushing the Eve servers to their breaking points. Those battles, while not the reason for some people to play this game is the reason that a LOT of us stick it out in the stagnation that we now call Eve. Taking away the one thing that a lot of people stuck around this long for after it got CCP the largest amount of free advertising in it's history (FOX NEWS, BBC News, Huffington Post, Australian News, etc, etc, etc, etc) seems counterproductive. It's now been almost 18 months since the early hints at player built stargates and 5 months since the Prophecy trailer came out confirming their existence.

I have a suggestion. If you're trying to stop large groups of players from "blobbing" across the universe when a fight breaks out, this is one very extreme method that will only lose CCP accounts/players/money. If you're truly set on using a cooldown timer after a jump and making it exponential at that, why not let it be reset at downtime? This avoids those large groups from making it across the universe, but allows those people to log in and actually play the game more than once a week without destroying their characters. Or, set a cap of 1 or 2 hours max. A great majority of the players in this game pay CCP to play this game. This isn't a free to play game. It's a pay to play. PLEXing aside, someone had to pay for that PLEX in order for someone else to buy it off of them. I'm personally aware of hundreds if not thousands of pilots that are already unsubbing their multiple accounts if this plan is implemented in it's current form (or anything close to it). Do something to save the game. This isn't it.

Dalia Rensini
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3251 - 2014-10-02 14:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalia Rensini
I have 2 capital capable pilots on 2 accounts with 2 cyno alts on each account.

If I attempt to jump a single capital (other than JF) any further than 20 LY I will lock out both of my accounts completely out of any type of game play for ~ several days. Even sharing the fatigue between the two pilots.

Please CCP tell me, what should I do during this time while waiting for POINTLESS timer to tick down?

This change makes people who fly sub caps and who do not understand the implications applaud because if anything makes nullbears cry, it must be good, and anyone who has a slightest clue what it means want to unsub.
Skill Extraction Slavery
#3252 - 2014-10-02 14:10:09 UTC
I like the direction. Keep going CCP!
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#3253 - 2014-10-02 14:10:24 UTC
Additional thoughts on the implications:

1) Some null professions, such as ninja gas harvesting in drug regions, will be logistically impossible now. They fully depended on being able to move carriers and rorquals to NPC null systems adjoining the drug space, projecting combat ships, harvesting, and hauling ships and harvesting in the shadows. It's implausible to fly these ships one by one through low/null, so profession dead.

2) JF logistics are being nerfed much harder than people seem to be getting. My JF route currently is 3 jumps and about 16LY total to service Brave in GE-, so round trip 6 jumps and can be handled by a single cyno alt account, and takes about 20 minutes round trip with a return of about 30m isk/trip (so about 90m/hour). That's now growing to 12 jumps round trip with 6 mids (so requires two cyno accounts) and will take 2 hours of timer burn down and 4 hours of fatigue burn down to start the next trip - bringing us to 5m isk/hour.

You would be better of mining veldspar in a venture in high sec and it will be more interesting to boot.

Instead couriers will probably have to be around 300M per load to incentivize JF pilots to haul there which will never be acceptable.

The only answer I can see is for our alliance to pull our deployment system out from the middle of the region to the edge of the region because no one can afford the logistical overhead to deploy any deeper.

Is that a problem? Maybe not, but it makes the game overall more boring because we have to then fly much further distances to defend the rest of the region, and no one will be living in any other areas of the region because there's no market close by. Space will become very big and very empty - something I thought CCP was trying to prevent -- all this work to make space more uniformly populated is for nothing if space becomes prohibitively inaccessible.

3) Timers are just really really boring. Would all the cheering subcap pilots be so hot on the changes if they included a mandatory 15 minute gate jump cooldown? Asking your most dedicated players to waste their lives away burning down timers is just plain rude.

There must be a better way to nerf force projection than to disincentive us with boredom. And frankly if there isn't - then just leave it as is.

There should *never* *ever* *ever* be a reason to make eve any slower to play or more boring.

Alex Logan
OK Researches And Inventions
#3254 - 2014-10-02 14:10:30 UTC
Dear CCP

The jump fatigue idea is useless and will cripple most old players that use capitals. Remember that it is us, 5+ year characters, that make for most of your monthly subs and implicitly, salaries.

I (should I say we?) would suggest a 2nd visit on this possible "feature" as well as upon several others that could indeed use adjustment.

Best regards!
A seasoned player.
Martin T
Gnostic Ascension
#3255 - 2014-10-02 14:10:43 UTC
Can we get a time estimate on the Black Ops rebalance?
I realize they are not being discussed right now beyond jump fatigue numbers similarly to the JFs, but there's been talk of this rebalance for a looong time and it's always "there will be a blop rebalance in the future." I don't care if the answer is "in two years time when all the sov stuff's been taken care of". Just give us a meaningful estimate we can look forward to.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#3256 - 2014-10-02 14:11:03 UTC
And the ****-storm is not even calming down, but I still need to ask a serious question.
You are about to make life in nullsec much harder. I dont mean warfare for PVP entities, I mean life for so-called 'citizens', who mine, build, run moon reactions and lose their ships to belt rats. And by 'much harder' - I mean MUCH HARDER, like before and after.

Do you have any plans to increase rewards as well?

Because mining 'rich' ice with 17% more isotope contents is not that kind of initiative, and even a 10% material discount at amarr outpost is not at all attractive if you cant export your products to the empire to compete with hisec bears.

So again - why would I go to nullsec except to get shot?
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3257 - 2014-10-02 14:11:08 UTC
Looks like this threadnaught is still siege green.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#3258 - 2014-10-02 14:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Dirk Solaris wrote:
It's about time nullies see a little pain from all the gain of the past numerous expansions.

That's the thing that i find most exasperating here. It's not 'nullies' that will feel pain. As I said in that post, well established groups are in the BEST position to survive radical change. It's everyone else that isn't. The 'independents' in npc null are getting the mega shaft , for example.

You're literally celebrating a situation that will most likely lead to the rich getting richer, the established groups being able to gain MORE control, and higher prices for things you use (and OMG don't even get started on PLEX as alliances start to subsidize multiple character training in order to 'lengthen' their span of control counter to what these long distance jump changes expect).
Crysantos Callahan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3259 - 2014-10-02 14:12:02 UTC
A few question directed at Greyscale, would be awesome to get at least a short answer what to expect:

Will you relocate racial ice or do something about the regional difference of isotope availability?

Are there any plans to create more NPC space to create more space to attack sov holders and as some kind of evacuation point for the defenders?

What about moon goo, moon distribution and T2 production? Do you want to change these things a bit to allow smaller scale alliances to provide their own stuff?

Did you already run tests with larger capital/supercapital fleets using gates and the possible bumps that will happen?

Thanks in advance!
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#3260 - 2014-10-02 14:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
I think 5LY on JF/Rorq will completely isolate some regions, as in make them 100% unreachable, such as Stain, Drone regions etc.
Nobody will ever run a freighter through gates, are you nuts :) Seems like not a thought out change.

Also seems like you might actually make 0.0 more stagnant because now its possible to have cynojammed buffer regions whereas previously you could have a scatter attack. Seems like this could make fights limited to a few key region entry points which will solidify the blue donut stagnation and make it impossible to launch a scatter attack on larger spaces.

Ruric Thyase wrote:

Force projection is ruining EVE! Force projection is killing small gang PvP! Force projection is killing null sec! Force projection enables the Blue Doughnut!



But seriously, this will hurt the JF logistics a LOT. Greyscale if you can't finish your example and state that you should slowboat a carrier 22 gates through null, you MIGht have to tweak some things

Haha it's funny how they completely omit that part, makes you wonder if they thought this through.