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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Eyrun Mangeiri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2521 - 2014-10-02 05:40:48 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Thinning the herd. Its going to be great.


Less people to play with is going to be great? Makes sense Big smile

I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2522 - 2014-10-02 05:41:13 UTC
The type of person that likes to PvP and the type of person that gets off doing industrial stuff are typically not the same person at least from most of the players I've met.

You can't just run around to different null stations and pick up mods and stuff to fit out a ship like you can in high sec. Sure you will maybe increase the amount of stuff on a local market to some degree but you will make living in null significantly more difficult. There is no way that every station in game will be stocked up or that you will be able to fit out a ship in most null sec systems completely with stuff off the market.

You've just nerfed scrap metal from melting loot so people that rated and used loot to melt and make ships and ammo etc. are already having issues.

I am guessing that if these changes go through that to live in null you will have to be self sustaining meaning that you'll have to build your own ships, your own mods, your own ammo, your own rigs. This means stock piling BPCs and having to wait for jobs to finish before you can fly a ship. Also it means flying meta 0 mods since that's what you can make.

To be in null you'll have to have both industrial and combat skills pretty high. The barrier to entry for newer players will be raised. I think less people will live in null not more or at least less players in deep null.

CCP why does it seem that when thinking about changing game play you seem to more often choose the stick instead of the carrot?

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Zacaral
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2523 - 2014-10-02 05:41:16 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Thinning the herd. Its going to be great.



Until CCP goes bankrupt because they're gonna lose probably thousands if not tens of thousands of subscriptions over this, it's gonna be the summer of rage all over again.
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#2524 - 2014-10-02 05:41:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Davionia Vanshel
You could fix (some of) the JF tears by making it so that you need to infini-point it with a Hictor - after all like Titans (T2 Dreads) and supers (T2 carriers) the JF is a T2 capital ship. The rest you can fix by leaving JF Jump Range alone.

Also I am also not sure what the mechanics will be while cynoing out under gate-cloak. Instead of an instawarping inty you'd have insta-jumping JFs. You'd also have lots of probes on regional gates so does a JF get a cloak?

Hmmm what is it with CCP and freighters - first it was the Freighter nerf that was not a nerf with +3 capital rigs which lasted all of what 2 days??? ... and now this.
Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2525 - 2014-10-02 05:41:44 UTC
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
If jump fatigue, cool down timers and travel time for using jump drvies are going to exist, then anyone jumping through a Stargate or an ACTUAL wormhole should technically be hit with the same restraints as well since all forms of travel use wormholes. Not that a sci-fi game needs to make any sense, but lets at least be consistant here if we are going to make stupid and ridiculous changes without actually putting any thought behind it.


One has a big gate to stablize the hole.. the other is a ship shoving lots of power and rips open a hole.

"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."

Mr Roshambo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2526 - 2014-10-02 05:42:05 UTC
This is kind of a terrible plan and whoever came up with it is the aids that is killing ccp from the inside. Please quit your job and gtfo of nerfing my game tia
Volmyr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2527 - 2014-10-02 05:42:30 UTC
Dear CCP, please find the Blizzard-spai that has infiltrated your ranks to ruin you from the inside. Find him and use fire.

Horrible ideas CCP, stop trolling us, we pay your damn paychecks! I will be de-subbing all accounts
John Starski
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2528 - 2014-10-02 05:42:57 UTC
For crying out loud! First wormholes, now this. CCP PLEASE!! I'M BEGGIN YOU! Please, fire the person that convinced everyone at CCP that the RIGHT AND ONLY way to solve game's problems is to ADD MORE ROUTINE IN IT!

P.S. But if your long-term development plan is to close Eve Online project... It's all make sense actually. Good job!
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#2529 - 2014-10-02 05:43:33 UTC
Onictus wrote:
^^

Its way more than 5 ly from X-7 to anything resmeblind low sec.

......and if I was flying a Mordus tag I would want to have to mid in CFC territorry.




Said no-one ever.

Not that it matters, but this statement is factually wrong for both x-7 and 5zxx.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Anshar,0/5ZXX-K
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Anshar,0/X-7OMU

You can easily hit northern lonetrek from npc pure blind in a single jump of less than 5 LY.



I see quite a few complaining about the difficulty in logistics. And they are correct, logistics WILL be harder. At first.

But ask yourself, how much do you need to import from jita? Any region of nullsec can be fully self sufficient when it comes to T1 production. Need to fuel towers? Use matching towers for the correct isotope types within your region.

All you need to import are fuel for off-racial capitals and t2 mats. Everything else can be sourced locally. Yes, you will have to expand your industrial and mining operations. But that isn't a bad thing.
OldWolf69
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2530 - 2014-10-02 05:44:09 UTC
Burl en Daire wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
I play eve for the big fights. Now they will be so rare :(



I agree that there will be fewer but there aren't many as it is. I think changes like this will create bottlenecks and staging areas that may increase the chances of larger fights because now large wars will have to take small steps to staging areas to build up forces and that will encourage others to try to stop them and cause more build ups and more fights. All of those staging areas will be very valuable and those forces in the area will be valuable so fights will happen. Yes, I do believe that huge fights will not be as likely but we will probably see more medium to large fights. This change allows for the potential for large fight to happen and as of right now there is little potential in null.

You realise that the ideea of having large stating points is simply wrong without the ability to feed the points with the tools you need? So that much for this ideea. But is also true that once you win a point, this will be a clear win since enemy won't have the option to reship or resupply in a timely manner. So after few attempts, large battles will die. And after a time all the brawlers will rely on ppl like GG to sponsor them to get ships to blow up. And in MOA specific case to run with them.Lol
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2531 - 2014-10-02 05:44:47 UTC
MASSADEATH wrote:
BrokenBC wrote:
MASSADEATH wrote:
You have to change your mind sets....

you wont be flitting across the galaxy to "deploy" anymore like we have been.... we will be engaged in long term local conflicts with border regions... against enemies who have a vested interest in those areas... you will not be able to hold vast areas anymore..thats the whole point...so dont get your knickers in a knot about supplying far off places.... cause the map will change... the mechanics will support what it can support...current areas of control will change....

YOU WILL BE DOING EVERYTHING IN A LOCAL SENSE


what happens across eve wont matter...cause your ability to deploy there quickly will be limited...what does matter is working with allies to set up timers and fleets to draw your enemies into "choices"... defend...split fleets....or stay...move....use JFB(jump fatigue bait) ..the possibilities are endless...use gates? or risk more jump fatigue....

and hopefully it will have a side effect of decentralizing JITA as well....since many tears seem to be coming from haulers who have it easy in the current jump mechanics....

ohh and if the goons keep unsubbing..we can just walk in soon and take your goodies without any fights :) so keep up the tear hose goonies and CFC... its a wonderful day in eve when the goons on one hand are saying this is going to help us...and on the other hand the players who did not get the memo on how to talk on the forums..are crying they will unsub thier accounts...

IMO this is a great small alliance win...(alliances that are mostly fixed in position) nomadic alliances of course that are cap heavy will have to come to realize that the galaxy has got much bigger and they will have to narrow their field of operations...

PURE GOLD!!!!










That is the game play YOU want. Not me I want giant fights with big ships and lots of people. I want long drawn out wars not more little ity bity border skirmishes. That dose not interest me in the least.




OHHH you mean like the 800 man blob you put together today in EWOK to defend a infrastructure hub that was RF...and we basically did not form cause we only had 120 to counter it.... those kind of big fights..the kind of fights where you use the leveraged advantage of

YOUR NUMBERS
BROKEN SOV
BROKEN FORCE PROJECTION...stemming from , shared JB network, Titans, huge jump range....

well dropping a 800 man fleet that you collect from across the galaxy in minutes to pound a 100man fleet that has local interests is not the kind of fights we want.

So i guess yes we have different visions of the what the game should be :)



BOO frigging HOO!

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2532 - 2014-10-02 05:46:38 UTC
Davionia Vanshel wrote:
You could fix (some of) the JF tears by making it so that you need to infini-point it with a Hictor - after all like Titans (T2 Dreads) and supers (T2 carriers) the JF is a T2 capital ship. The rest you can fix by leaving JF Jump Range alone.

Also I am also not sure what the mechanics will be while cynoing out under gate-cloak. Instead of an instawarping inty you'd have insta-jumping JFs. You'd also have lots of probes on regional gates so does a JF get a cloak?

Hmmm what is it with CCP and freighters - first it was the Freighter nerf that was not a nerf with +3 capital rigs which lasted all of what 2 days??? ... and now this.


I see where you're going with that, but just FYI, the only T2 capital ship is the Jump Freighter (no other "capital" requires moongoo or tech 2 capital components or a tech 2 BPC).
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S0ns of Anarchy
#2533 - 2014-10-02 05:47:26 UTC
The tears are absolutely delicious, and there are barrels of them.

All those people unable to fight without at least 1000 of their closest friends, having to face their limitations, is awesome.

Best. Change. Ever.

My only regret is that it's announced to soon, many assets will be put in safety before patch deployment, there would have been epic fire sales as regions fell...

PS: with regard to CSM representatives breaking their NDA giving advance notice to their masters, heads must rolls.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#2534 - 2014-10-02 05:48:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Obsidian Hawk
Ok so here is my post again summarizing everything.

But first let me say, everyone that sells their mains and cancels their accounts before this lands is an idiot and will regret doing that, because these changes ARE NOT FINAL CCP always reserves the right to change things before deployment.

That being said im going to list off the list of compromises and counter proposal to CCP


1. Jump range issue.

5 ly cap is bad. We can all agree on that.

Idea Solution #1 - scaled jump range for each type of ship I will list max ranges. which should be fair. And to keep it simple i used whole numbers.

Carriers, JF, Rorquals - 12 LY

Dreads - 10 LY

Super Carriers - 7 ly

Titans - 5 ly

IdeaSolution #2

A new item in either a mid slot, low slot or rig slot; Maximum 1 fitted at a time that provides a bonus to jump range. Bonus will be based on the ship you are flying and will be % based T2 versions of this module will be a 50% increase of the T1 version.


2. Jump Fatigue

Cooldown timers are good, but the current math is a bit extreme.

Idea Solution #1 - scaled fatigue based on the ship you are flying. I will use the same formula as a base for the adjustments.

Titan - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.1) - standard ccp formula
Super Carrier - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.15)
Dread - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.2)
Carrier - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.25)
JF, Rorqual, Black ops - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.35)

This favors logistics ships over combat ships, because lets face it logistics is a pain in the arse at times.

Idea Solution # 2 - New implants and boosters that reduce the amount of fatigue you get from the distance traveled.

Names for implants might include, Alarm Clock, Yawn, Dream
Booster names might include, NoDoze, Surge, Jolt, Coffee, Tweek, or SUPER CAFFINATED QUAFE!

However there needs to be a downside to boosters, I think an appropriate downside is significant increase in isotope and cap usage.

Idea Soultion # 3 - Make the fatigue a flat rate base on the type of jump.

Type may include
Local - within constellation
Constellational - within the region but outside the constellation
Regtional - outside your region.

Idea Solution # 4 - Make an absolute cap on how much fatigue you can get, cause as it stands you can get several years of fatigue within a week.

3. Cap ships using gates

This goes against EvE canon set forth in the chronicles. Stop that!

EDIT : - make a module that allows them to use a gate, and maybe put a fuel cost per jump


4. Pod jumping

Get your ship into low sec with a nice clone vat on it have all your new members do that. Fly out to null space and then have them self destruct. And set up regular jump schedules.


------------

To my fellow EvE players, these are some fairly balanced solutions. If you like them PLEASE quote which ones you like and say I like this for balance or something along those lines.

Whining, saying you quit blahh blahh blahh will not get CCP to listen. If you want them to listen you must always present your case like a lawyer and convince them why their idea is bad. I have presented my case, and I have offered several solutions which go along with CCP's ideas but are not as harsh as cutting off everyone's limbs.


SO AGAIN,

If you like any of these ideas, quote them, post them and offer feed by of why this or this isnt a good solution.


Thank you for your time today and CCP I do hope you will consider these solutions as a more reasonable balance to nerfing power projection and capital projections.

Regards
Obsidian Hawk
Capital pilot since 2008

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#2535 - 2014-10-02 05:48:46 UTC
Marc Durant wrote:
I bet the 0.0 sock puppet CSMs are lobbying like mad atm.


They came out of the summit happy as a clam. Pretty much as stupid apparently
Arronicus
Madness Unchained
#2536 - 2014-10-02 05:50:04 UTC
Cr Turist wrote:

TL:DR Eve is dying wah wah wah




Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

OldWolf69
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2537 - 2014-10-02 05:53:36 UTC
Also, maybe it's just me, but i fail to see the part where CCP says nullsec will be improved and worth settling in it, for the most part of the space wich now is pretty useless. But what do i know? Ppl will come and settle there "just because" they like to loose ships to useless actions.Lol
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#2538 - 2014-10-02 05:53:46 UTC
Ice Dealer wrote:
Summer Isle wrote:
Ice Dealer wrote:
Catt Stevens wrote:
Warning threadnaught reaching critical mass, suggest that all CCP staff evacuate the building
.

It's 23:00 in iceland. I wonder how well CCP employees are sleeping.

And how many blue posts have we had in here today? Like two after the first page?

There were 20 blueposts as of Greyscale's post, here, when he said he was going home.



Hard to keep up. Need "Show all blueposts" button.


You know that if you click on the blue "Dev" tag on each post that you progress to the next blue post, right? Right??
Bisches McFrosty
Doomheim
#2539 - 2014-10-02 05:56:14 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Kalissis wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Sakura Nihil wrote:
The last several pages have been consistent in their message of "these changes are making life harder for logistics pilots".

Yes, they will. That's part of the point. From the looks of it, CCP is trying to push nullsec groups into mining, refining, and building locally in nullsec, rather than getting everything you need in highsec and shipping it out to nullsec for consumption. That was part of the though with the Crius industry changes, to reprocessing in particular.

It makes perfect sense why they're doing it, too. Much of nullsec sits unused, despite being "owned", and the resources out there could fuel local economies, T2 / T3 production, the whole nine yards. Yet, people enjoy the convenience of loading up a JF in Jita and jumping off back to null for one-stop shopping. If you kneecap near-instant logistics, you suddenly create local demands that can be satisfied by manufacturers in nullsec.

Also, keep in mind, if the current vision for EVE pans out, within a few years we're going to be moving out into unknown space, colonizing new systems, opening new stargates, and the like. On the frontier, you harvest resources available to you, rather than running back to developed space for everything you need.

As an aside, I understand that from a personal level, a lot of people have invested time and money into being logistics pilots with JFs, good JDC skills, and all that. Anytime a nerf happens that hits you where you spent SP and ISK, it hurts. But I hope that you and everyone else out there in the same boat will see that we need to make the universe big once again.

Besides, there's always opportunity in these changes... last time I checked, there were cloaky haulers that can ferry loot to and from trade hubs quickly. If people can no longer transport items via JF (easy mode), maybe there's money to be made in a new market? Maybe an EVE version of Western Union?



One small problem - all the materials you need to do production do not exist locally in deep sov null, and these systems can be 30+ LY from lowsec and with a regional gate larger than 5 LY in between. Please tell me how living in such an area which cannot support local production and now requires a full time job consisting of some of the most tedious and boring "gameplay" in eve to supply it is going to be fun at all. Eve is not a job it is a game, I don't sub to eve so I can spend 4 hours a day doing boring sh*t logistics work and gate jumping so that maybe if I'm lucky I can spent the last 15 min I am online doing something I enjoy.

To fix this the 5 LY limit absolutely must be changed and should be based on ship class, not some absurd blanket limit for every ship in the game. And for the love of god this jump fatigue crap that requires me to have a spreadsheet open at all times needs to be simplified and capped. A max jump cool down of 1-3 days for someone that went full ****** and crossed the galaxy accomplishes the goal of keeping them out of any fights for several days without the stupid numbers being quoted today.

I really have little interest in playing a game that consists of me sitting in a station and watching a timer count down to tell me when I can do something fun again,

And all the idiots saying they used to supply nullsec with Indy/freighter convoys before there we're jump drives - that was before the warp speed changes. There is no way in hell I would pay to play a game that required me to jump a freighter at 5+ min per system 30+ jumps into hostile space. There is no fun to be had there.


There is an answer right there in your text, if its far away what you need then move there, problem solved, and if you think that NULL cant support building T1 hulls, well go and read some of eve uni wikis. Now you say you need to build T2 blablabla... how about adjusting to the new system, if you wont someone else will. Its really simple, most of the heavy stuff you can acquire in NULL everything else you can ship in.


Yes, I totally see people in nullsec flying primarily T1 hulls...not. I'm not saying you can't do it, but if I have 10 hours per week to play eve and I used to get to spend 9 hours doing something I find fun and 1 hour on tedious logistics work, and now I find that I'm spending 8 hours on tedious logistics and have 2 hours left for fun it's probably time to move on to some game where the devs are a bit less clueless.



This
Fayral
Nano Currency
#2540 - 2014-10-02 05:58:35 UTC
I really like how the changes look so far. Obviously some polish is needed but thank you for being bold.

2 quick points of note.

I'm worried about Black ops ships with the current iterations. Not reducing the range to 5ly is great, however that also means that black ops pilots are capable of building fatigue at a much quicker rate. I understand the need to reduce fast travelling around the universe but black ops by nature should be a little more forgiving in this.


My play style is very nomadic. As a mercenary we deploy all over New Eden using carriers to move fit and rigged ships. Obviously moving this way is going to be more difficult, especially long distances. I totally get the ultimate goal here is to nerf the way large capital fleets can deploy across the universe quickly. Increasing the carriers ship maintenance bay would have no effect on the way large capital fleets can deploy, but would provide a bit of a break to the amount of return trips for people using carriers as a way to move rigged ships.