These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Onictus
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#2321 - 2014-10-02 03:24:47 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
Slap Chop wrote:
We're afraid that the changes will make the game so tedious that it just won't be fun any more.


Fun fact - you don't have to drag capital ships to every fight, ever. Once upon a time, I recall Goons flying around in hordes of subcaps, traveling via gates.



No but I DO need to move a fair few ships around. I could give a **** about combat, I care about the all of the added agrivation moving around with the ships I need for doctrine when my carriers are now useless.
Yuri Fedorov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2322 - 2014-10-02 03:24:59 UTC
Lol people quitting eve over cap changes. Adapt and fly subcaps. Let's be happy the game is changing at all with all the threadnaught complaints in every single change CCP ever floats.
Soturno
Doomheim
#2323 - 2014-10-02 03:25:03 UTC
Niraia wrote:
Sad day for EVE. I'm going to need hugs.



Hotdrop my ass after that hahahahahhahahhahahahahahahaahhahahahhahahahahahaha
Kah'Roor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2324 - 2014-10-02 03:26:12 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
Dropping by the thread to toss my strong support behind these changes.

Bottom line is this - the large number of fast-travel devices we have in-game makes it ridiculously easy to travel across EVE in a matter of minutes. It makes no sense as to why I can travel from Syndicate to Curse in minutes, locations on opposite ends of the game universe.

By nerfing power projection, you substantially increase the cost of maintaining coalitions the likes of which we see today. Increased difficulty with logistics, substantial movement of heavy assets, etc. should encourage nullsec alliances to focus more on their home region(s), instead of adventuring around the cluster looking for any cap fight to drop a ton of supercaps onto.

I realize that some of these changes might not stand the test of feedback to Phoebe (med clone pushback being the strongest from the looks of it), but I encourage the devs to keep pushing for these changes. A healthy nullsec is one vibrant with large numbers of alliances and coalitions, rather than one big blue donut. Even if you lose some subs in the process, as happened during past changes (like the Nano Nerf), keeping the game healthy is more important than catering to fickle subscribers.

+1

This
Onictus
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#2325 - 2014-10-02 03:26:30 UTC
Yuri Fedorov wrote:
Lol people quitting eve over cap changes. Adapt and fly subcaps. Let's be happy the game is changing at all with all the threadnaught complaints in every single change CCP ever floats.



I can fly literally every sub-cap in the game.

but the hell if I'm moving thirty ships at a time through null by gate ever.

That isn't fun, its not a game, its a job that I PAY for, and hell with that.
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#2326 - 2014-10-02 03:27:07 UTC
I have just a little question btw...

Who cares about mass unsubs of accounts payed by plex - which only log in on jabber ping to deny content in the end?

PS: I do NOT believe all the plexes on the market are payed by rl money.
vilya novacat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2327 - 2014-10-02 03:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: vilya novacat
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Eigenvalue wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:

The initial price tag may seem daunting but they are fully insurable t1 ships and every nullsec entity reimburses them for the full price of the hull and required fittings (or they just give you a replacement ship) if you lose it on an op with an approved FC.


Sorry, I thought these changes were meant to enable smaller entities to have a chance in sov null not just established wealthy entities?

That may have been the intention. That will not be the result.

When was the last time "What CCP intended" and "What actually happened" were anywhere in proximity to each other?
Sorry, rhetorical question. We (but not CCP) all know it hasn't happened yet.

Anybody want to buy a titan and pilot?

Actual response: Rip the numbers apart on how fast the fatigue disappears and its not an altogether horrible idea. On the order of a minute per point would be reasonable. Put an upper limit on fatigue. Then make fatigue only apply to inter-region (or inter-constellation) jumps. Make fatigue not apply to POS jump bridges at all. Prevent POS jump bridges from reaching inter-region.

Still stops easy long distance travel in its tracks but allows for people to easily defend their space and move around within it. Combined with the death of pod jumping you'd force null players to actually live in null. Its still gonna **** the T2 market, but anything that restricts travel will do that.

edit: And while we're asking for reasonable stuff, find a way to let a subcap tow another subcap or a pod tag along with someone else's ship.
Xenocy
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2328 - 2014-10-02 03:28:13 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Sakura Nihil wrote:
Dropping by the thread to toss my strong support behind these changes.

Bottom line is this - the large number of fast-travel devices we have in-game makes it ridiculously easy to travel across EVE in a matter of minutes. It makes no sense as to why I can travel from Syndicate to Curse in minutes, locations on opposite ends of the game universe.

By nerfing power projection, you substantially increase the cost of maintaining coalitions the likes of which we see today. Increased difficulty with logistics, substantial movement of heavy assets, etc. should encourage nullsec alliances to focus more on their home region(s), instead of adventuring around the cluster looking for any cap fight to drop a ton of supercaps onto.

I realize that some of these changes might not stand the test of feedback to Phoebe (med clone pushback being the strongest from the looks of it), but I encourage the devs to keep pushing for these changes. A healthy nullsec is one vibrant with large numbers of alliances and coalitions, rather than one big blue donut. Even if you lose some subs in the process, as happened during past changes (like the Nano Nerf), keeping the game healthy is more important than catering to fickle subscribers.

+1



Keep the Faith, CCP do not flinch

Agreed, don't flinch, other mmos deserve us more.


That Star Citizen sounds better every day. Wonder if they want my money or have some sort of page where I could donate.....
Kalissis
#2329 - 2014-10-02 03:28:15 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Sakura Nihil wrote:
Dropping by the thread to toss my strong support behind these changes.

Bottom line is this - the large number of fast-travel devices we have in-game makes it ridiculously easy to travel across EVE in a matter of minutes. It makes no sense as to why I can travel from Syndicate to Curse in minutes, locations on opposite ends of the game universe.

By nerfing power projection, you substantially increase the cost of maintaining coalitions the likes of which we see today. Increased difficulty with logistics, substantial movement of heavy assets, etc. should encourage nullsec alliances to focus more on their home region(s), instead of adventuring around the cluster looking for any cap fight to drop a ton of supercaps onto.

I realize that some of these changes might not stand the test of feedback to Phoebe (med clone pushback being the strongest from the looks of it), but I encourage the devs to keep pushing for these changes. A healthy nullsec is one vibrant with large numbers of alliances and coalitions, rather than one big blue donut. Even if you lose some subs in the process, as happened during past changes (like the Nano Nerf), keeping the game healthy is more important than catering to fickle subscribers.

+1



Keep the Faith, CCP do not flinch

Agreed, don't flinch, other mmos deserve us more.


Go play teleportation online, EVE is not for you, EVE is life, EVE is soul! CCP go go go!
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2330 - 2014-10-02 03:28:26 UTC
Can we get a tier ii jump freighter that has a sma so I can still transport my fitted ships around as with the jump changes this wont be possible anymore with my carrier.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2331 - 2014-10-02 03:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazri al Mahdi
Yuri Fedorov wrote:
Lol people quitting eve over cap changes. Adapt and fly subcaps. Let's be happy the game is changing at all with all the threadnaught complaints in every single change CCP ever floats.

If it already takes 8 hours a week for a logistics pilot to supply a corp in a JF, how long do you think that will take in a blockade runner?

EDIT: I am literally in favor of every change except the JF nerf. I HATE doing logistics and will **** off entirely if it gets even one iota more tedious.

EVE has reached its Tedium Peak - it cannot get any worse without everyone affected unsubbing.
Mijou Star
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2332 - 2014-10-02 03:30:37 UTC
Shayle wrote:
Thank you CCP for having the balls to do this.

For anyone moaning about how tedious it will now be to travel across the map for a fight; that's the whole point! Find a fight closer to home, go reset your standings and destroy your neighbours because you're bored. Let chaos rule again.

For those moaning about not being able to jump bridge across their vast swathe of empty null sec space; that's the whole point! Downsize your sov space so you can move across it to defend it, and let someone else move in next door.

For those moaning about logistics challenges, we managed fine for years without jump bridges and jump freighters (including moving moongoo). Or if it's too much hassle for your alliance to hold half the bloody moons on the map, then don't hold them all - oh wait, maybe that's possibly the point?

How many of you actually remember back to the 2007/2008 era where multiple wars were happening across null sec? Fountain seemed like a million miles from Deklein, and you'd certainly never consider traveling all the way down to catch just for one fight.

Stop crying just because you're ******* lazy.



Thankyou for thinking the same thoughts as me but being able to type them out In a good way



+1
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#2333 - 2014-10-02 03:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Sakura Nihil wrote:
Dropping by the thread to toss my strong support behind these changes.

Bottom line is this - the large number of fast-travel devices we have in-game makes it ridiculously easy to travel across EVE in a matter of minutes. It makes no sense as to why I can travel from Syndicate to Curse in minutes, locations on opposite ends of the game universe.

By nerfing power projection, you substantially increase the cost of maintaining coalitions the likes of which we see today. Increased difficulty with logistics, substantial movement of heavy assets, etc. should encourage nullsec alliances to focus more on their home region(s), instead of adventuring around the cluster looking for any cap fight to drop a ton of supercaps onto.

I realize that some of these changes might not stand the test of feedback to Phoebe (med clone pushback being the strongest from the looks of it), but I encourage the devs to keep pushing for these changes. A healthy nullsec is one vibrant with large numbers of alliances and coalitions, rather than one big blue donut. Even if you lose some subs in the process, as happened during past changes (like the Nano Nerf), keeping the game healthy is more important than catering to fickle subscribers.

+1



Keep the Faith, CCP do not flinch

Agreed, don't flinch, other mmos deserve us more.


Yes they do deserve you and why not give them some more of your sub money for a game that isn't out yet. What happen to the adapt or die and the HTFU. Has the current eve player base become so weak. Nathan would be so sad right now watching eve players cry about the next challenge in eve. I guess you will enjoy the space WOW of SC. Plus can I have your stuff.
Onictus
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#2334 - 2014-10-02 03:31:44 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Yuri Fedorov wrote:
Lol people quitting eve over cap changes. Adapt and fly subcaps. Let's be happy the game is changing at all with all the threadnaught complaints in every single change CCP ever floats.

If it already takes 8 hours a week for a logistics pilot to supply a corp in a JF, how long do you think that will take in a blockade runner?



...and god help you need a battleship.
Mijou Star
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2335 - 2014-10-02 03:33:11 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Yuri Fedorov wrote:
Lol people quitting eve over cap changes. Adapt and fly subcaps. Let's be happy the game is changing at all with all the threadnaught complaints in every single change CCP ever floats.



I can fly literally every sub-cap in the game.

but the hell if I'm moving thirty ships at a time through null by gate ever.

That isn't fun, its not a game, its a job that I PAY for, and hell with that.

Dont move 30 ships then?
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#2336 - 2014-10-02 03:33:30 UTC
vilya novacat wrote:
Anybody want to buy a titan and pilot?

What titan, and can it wait a few months?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Gewrixlera
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#2337 - 2014-10-02 03:33:46 UTC
So the overall gist of this change is to prevent force projection by limiting the ability to move ships and bodies across the universe in any reasonable amount of time. I think that CCP will be sad to realize that this goal will only affect those without stockpiles of billions (or trillions) of ISK. Heck, I have two dreads and two carriers on one of my characters, I can put them in strategically significant systems and simply fly between them in a covert ops frigate or interceptor, and still be able to utilize them as combat assets in a viable way. And I'm one guy, with a limited wallet. Now multiply me by the body count and asset list of the CFC. This won't change literal force projection within their territories, not for them.

It's like CCP wants to bring back the good old days, you know, before electricity and a polio vaccine - where people had to work the land with their bare hands to scrounge up enough to eat each day. Gosh, doesn't that sound like fun!

So now that I've complained, here's what I think is a more measured approach.

1. Set a more reasonable "max" range than 5LY. Have the range be based on the ship mass, sort of like wormholes, and adjust it so that the 4 classes of capital ships have different ranges (you know, because they are different), and for Black Ops and Titans have a separate set of skills/rules for bridging range. I'm not going to put down a number, but I think 5LY is too short. Currently a carrier max jump range is 14.625 LY with perfect skills - so the magic number must lie somewhere between 5 and 15...

2. Instead of a logarithmic cool down timer, how about a range-based timer that doesn't scale to stupid? Jumping 30,000 lightyears over the span of 3 jumps? Fine. a simple linear scale based on distance works. If you need to jump 12.1, 10.4, and then 8.3 LY, it's going to take you 31 minutes, with a cool down in each system based on the range you jumped. Want to go from YA0 to HED? that's a 55 minute trip. It's not "easy" and it's not onerous.

3. Utilize the "gravity dispersal" rule from stargates/wormholes with cynosural fields and ship mass, so your fleet of capitals aren't necessarily in range for RR or cap chaining. Tie your cool down concept into this distribution, so the more jumps you make, the further from your destination cyno you might land. When tied with the jump distance cool down, it makes you more vulnerable during travel, rather than make travel unreasonable.
Slap Chop
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2338 - 2014-10-02 03:34:10 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:

Fun fact - you don't have to drag capital ships to every fight, ever. Once upon a time, I recall Goons flying around in hordes of subcaps, traveling via gates.




Fun Fact - I have never flown a capital ship into combat, ever.

These changes will affect the players fighting in cap ships, the players performing logistics in cap ships, the industrial players who require large amounts of materials, the players who want to just get home after a night of long battles using their jump bridge network, the group of BLOPS players who wish to do more than a single drop per evening, etc.

I love playing Goons Online and this change solidifies our stanglehold on New Eden.

As someone who plays the same game as everybody else and does it on a limited schedule, I am simply worried that this change will make the game less enjoyable and thus desirable.
Onictus
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#2339 - 2014-10-02 03:34:13 UTC
Mijou Star wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Yuri Fedorov wrote:
Lol people quitting eve over cap changes. Adapt and fly subcaps. Let's be happy the game is changing at all with all the threadnaught complaints in every single change CCP ever floats.



I can fly literally every sub-cap in the game.

but the hell if I'm moving thirty ships at a time through null by gate ever.

That isn't fun, its not a game, its a job that I PAY for, and hell with that.

Dont move 30 ships then?



Not moving any, I cancelled already.
Soleil Fournier
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#2340 - 2014-10-02 03:34:45 UTC
On the clone change -

What happens when you are stuck in null due to campers/etc and just keep getting sent back to the same (presumably hostile) station? Without being able to change your clone to anything but the current station you would be very screwed.

Maybe a once - per - Month emergency death clone to a home station in empire would be a nice workaround.