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CCP what did you do to Sleepers?

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Syzygium
Nagamoto Inc.
Come in and freak out
#121 - 2014-10-05 16:25:11 UTC
tbh flying a 3b Marauder is nothing strange or funny in a C4. all that "trololo plz give bookmarks u dumbass flying carrier in C4 hahatrololol" is kinda stupid because with a bit of attention you simply don't lose your ratting ship and therefore it simply does not matter how expensive the fit is as long as it gives you good killspeed.

I farm in my C4 Static C4 for around two years now. Carrier + 2 Sentrydomis attached in the HomeWH, Marauder + 2 Sentrydomis attached in the Static. I lost ]not a single ship during these 2 years because I just know what I do and I pay attention. So all that X-Type and Factionstuff on the ships payed for itself very very well considering the killspeed these fits bring. Besides that, I can simply sell it once I leave the WH.

So instead of laughing at a guy who lost a 3b Paladin, laugh at yourself after you compared how much MORE cash he made in that ship all the time you didnt catch him, while you sit half an hour nagging on some sleepers armor and complaining how bad C4 Anos are. The guy had the right idea. You got a lucky shot, good for you. He still makes a lot more cash with the next Paladin and does not need to complain at the forums how he cannot beat the anos any more or how bad is income is now.

Luft Reich
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#122 - 2014-10-05 17:26:05 UTC
Syzygium wrote:
tbh flying a 3b Marauder is nothing strange or funny in a C4. all that "trololo plz give bookmarks u dumbass flying carrier in C4 hahatrololol" is kinda stupid because with a bit of attention you simply don't lose your ratting ship and therefore it simply does not matter how expensive the fit is as long as it gives you good killspeed.

I farm in my C4 Static C4 for around two years now. Carrier + 2 Sentrydomis attached in the HomeWH, Marauder + 2 Sentrydomis attached in the Static. I lost ]not a single ship during these 2 years because I just know what I do and I pay attention. So all that X-Type and Factionstuff on the ships payed for itself very very well considering the killspeed these fits bring. Besides that, I can simply sell it once I leave the WH.

So instead of laughing at a guy who lost a 3b Paladin, laugh at yourself after you compared how much MORE cash he made in that ship all the time you didnt catch him, while you sit half an hour nagging on some sleepers armor and complaining how bad C4 Anos are. The guy had the right idea. You got a lucky shot, good for you. He still makes a lot more cash with the next Paladin and does not need to complain at the forums how he cannot beat the anos any more or how bad is income is now.



No no, I will still laugh at the person who looses a 3billion paladin. Why on bobs good earth do you need a 3bil paladin. Atleast 1.5bil of that is in tank mods, because faction heat sinks are only like 100mil. I'd love to hear why you need so much pimp on a c4 marauder, it defiantly is not to run sites faster because last time I checked having more tank doesn't help you clear sites faster.

ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#123 - 2014-10-05 17:41:41 UTC
I've typically over tanked my ships (where it doesn't compromise dps output, etc.) as it takes the pressure off a bit especially if you screw up and pull the wrong trigger or don't pay attention for a moment or something and/or if someone jumps you who has underestimated your ability to fight back it could give you the edge.
Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
#124 - 2014-10-05 18:08:00 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Before everyone goes crazy and talks about the death of low class wormholes, I'm mapping out the real damage:

C1 Space(Totally Unaffected)
No RR



C2 Space(Totally Unaffected)
No RR


C3 Spacesmall nerfs to solar cell and Oruze, the 2 rarest kinds of sites, you can no longer rely on unbonused light drones to slowly eat away at frigates in the solar cell, and the site time for the oruze is getting a SLIGHT increase, but with only 130dps repping power even solo ships will be able to melt the low HP low resistance cruisers
Fortification
- 1 RR Cruiser in final wave, low hp and resistances, shouldn't even effect solo ships

Outpost
No RR

Solar Cell
- 2 RR frigates 2nd wave, low hp and resistances, smartbombs and unbonused drones won't be effected, may be difficult for ships that don't have good dps vs frigs to kill them
- 1 RR battleship final wave, low hp and resistances, easily killed first, shouldn't effect solo ships


Oruze
- 1 RR cruiser in first wave, low hp and resistances, easily killed first, shouldn't effect solo ships
- 2 RR Cruisers in final wave, low hp and resistances, 130 dps repping power (against the 60% resistances of the other RR cruiser), site time will be a little slower


C4 SpaceHuge nerf to soloability and site time of the 2 most common sites
Barracks
The final wave is an RR nightmare, there is as much as 965-1126dps in reps. All the ships spawn hundreds of K off and will try to stay at range. This is also a pretty common site.

Command Post
Stupid 1000+dps in reps in the final wave, another huge nerf

Terminus
Couple of RR frigs and cruisers, will slow down solo ships

Info Sanctum
RR cruisers and frigs in the final wave, not as bad as the barracks and command post but it will still slow solo ships down


C5 Spacewith the new buff to flux coils and refitting, core garrisons (most common site) remain for marauders that bring multiple smartbombs, other then that there's a huge nerf to groups as strongholds (2nd most common site) now have a nightmarish last wave
Garrison
6 RR frigs in 2nd wave, solo marauders will have trouble smartbombing the frigs. double or triple smartbomb reccomended

Stronghold
Final wave is a total RR nightmare 2000+dps in reps, soloing will be impossible and small groups will have a lot of trouble

Oruze
Last wave has 4 RR frigs and 3 RR cruisers, ships without good alpha wont be able to kill the frigs

Quarantine
3 RR cruisers in the final wave 250ish dps tank, but no one runs these sites outside of capital escalations or large groups anyways


C6 Space (Totally Unaffected)
No one can really solo these sites, and anything outside of caps are so horrifically inefficient its a null point


and here i went through all this trouble to get exact numbers on the front page and no one is even reading them :/

Some of the C6 anomalies ARE soloable and they were not bad before the RR buff, now I don't know but I might try it and post in here.
Syzygium
Nagamoto Inc.
Come in and freak out
#125 - 2014-10-05 21:17:38 UTC
Rroff wrote:
I've typically over tanked my ships (where it doesn't compromise dps output, etc.) as it takes the pressure off a bit especially if you screw up and pull the wrong trigger or don't pay attention for a moment or something and/or if someone jumps you who has underestimated your ability to fight back it could give you the edge.

Thats the point. Deadspace Fits allow you to burst-tank really high peaks and fly the sites with as few tanking modules as possible. That frees slots and free slots offer space for other modules that improve your damage application or capsituation or even raw dps.

That is why any good fitting is of course not capstable but uses a cap-injector (= al ot of free module slots!) and that is why some fits even overheat frequently - you can do it several minutes and tank a big wave of NPCs quite fine. Repair with some nanite paste on the way to the next ano. If that brings you a free lowslot or even an additional targetpainter, its definitely worth it.
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2014-10-06 07:32:54 UTC
I might be the only one, but I am glad that the RR Sleepers are fixed. This means we have to be on the ball while doing sites. We have to pay attention. I like it hard, if I want en easier time, or if I want to solo I can use a lower class of holes.

If the only reason that some groups or individuals could do C3/4 sites was the broken Sleeper Remote Repais... so be it. Work to overcome it. If the The 20 Minuters can, anyone can.
Winthorp
#127 - 2014-10-06 07:59:07 UTC
Bjurn Akely wrote:
I might be the only one, but I am glad that the RR Sleepers are fixed. This means we have to be on the ball while doing sites. We have to pay attention. I like it hard, if I want en easier time, or if I want to solo I can use a lower class of holes.

If the only reason that some groups or individuals could do C3/4 sites was the broken Sleeper Remote Repais... so be it. Work to overcome it. If the The 20 Minuters can, anyone can.


Honestly this is the most ******** response i have seen. C3/4 will still be able to be run solo its just a pointless ******* nerf when we have asked for variable triggers and other escalation options that would make PVE so much more palatable.

The only thing this change does is make it harder for fresh meat in WH's to get the taste of blood. But please continue dribbling your WH sites should be hard crap it seems to be sinking in at CCP.
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2014-10-06 08:30:02 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:
I might be the only one, but I am glad that the RR Sleepers are fixed. This means we have to be on the ball while doing sites. We have to pay attention. I like it hard, if I want en easier time, or if I want to solo I can use a lower class of holes.

If the only reason that some groups or individuals could do C3/4 sites was the broken Sleeper Remote Repais... so be it. Work to overcome it. If the The 20 Minuters can, anyone can.


Honestly this is the most ******** response i have seen. C3/4 will still be able to be run solo its just a pointless ******* nerf when we have asked for variable triggers and other escalation options that would make PVE so much more palatable.

The only thing this change does is make it harder for fresh meat in WH's to get the taste of blood. But please continue dribbling your WH sites should be hard crap it seems to be sinking in at CCP.


Calm down. No need for stars.

I'd would suggest that new blood, if they want to solo do so in C1/2. Or take part in a fleet that can help keep them alive. We've had fairly new players running cruisers in a C4 fleet. As long as logistics is alert it works fine. And should now too, it's only reps that has changed, right?

Yes, I'll continue. I do have the opinion that w-space should be hard. I'm not against variable triggers and such, quite the contrary. I want it harder, more random.

You seem to be of the opinion that fixing the RR bug is a nerf. Lets look at how it went down, in chronological order.:

  1. The reps works as intended, sites are hard
  2. Reps got broken due to a bug
  3. Sites got easier
  4. RR bug got repaired
  5. Sited returned to previous level of hardness


...at which point people start crying nerf. Roll
Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#129 - 2014-10-06 08:46:47 UTC
Why in Bob's name would someone do c1 or c2 sites when they can do L4s in hs safely? For better isk.

Also your list is missing a several year gap in there.
Winthorp
#130 - 2014-10-06 08:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Bjurn Akely wrote:


I'd would suggest that new blood, if they want to solo do so in C1/2. Or take part in a fleet that can help keep them alive. We've had fairly new players running cruisers in a C4 fleet.



/sigh

Its the single player day trippers dipping their toes into Wh life i care for with this clear NERF. I don't care about the people with access to fleets or running C4/5/6 sites solo now as these people are already well capable of handling these changes.
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2014-10-06 08:55:52 UTC
Nox52 wrote:
Why in Bob's name would someone do c1 or c2 sites when they can do L4s in hs safely? For better isk.

Also your list is missing a several year gap in there.


The reason people would like to do C1/2 sites instead of L4's in hight might be that there are less danger in L4's. Perhaps they cherish the lack of Local, the increased risk of getting jumped. I sure do.

True, there are years gone by between some of those numbers. Still does not make the argument invalid.
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2014-10-06 08:58:45 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:


I'd would suggest that new blood, if they want to solo do so in C1/2. Or take part in a fleet that can help keep them alive. We've had fairly new players running cruisers in a C4 fleet.



/sigh

Its the single player day trippers dipping their toes into Wh life i care for with this clear NERF. I don't care about the people with access to fleets or running C4/5/6 sites solo now as these people are already well capable of handling these changes.


OK. So the main point of the RR bug being fixed is bad is that some people can not handle it. Others can, but according to you they do not count? OK... It's a valid opinion. An opinion I do not share at all.

King Fu Hostile
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#133 - 2014-10-06 09:54:04 UTC
Nox52 wrote:
Why in Bob's name would someone do c1 or c2 sites when they can do L4s in hs safely? For better isk.

Also your list is missing a several year gap in there.


I'm actually not sure if two low SP guys running L4s in cheap fit BCs can make as much ISK as they would in wormholes.

Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#134 - 2014-10-06 11:08:56 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Nox52 wrote:
Why in Bob's name would someone do c1 or c2 sites when they can do L4s in hs safely? For better isk.

Also your list is missing a several year gap in there.


I'm actually not sure if two low SP guys running L4s in cheap fit BCs can make as much ISK as they would in wormholes.




It's an interesting question. Two low SP BC won't be able to run L4s very well but they should be able to blaze through L3s, by themselves. In HS without a worry of getting ganked 23.5/7.

Two low SP BC should be able to handle C1 and C2 as well as a good tengu. I suspect they could do solo sites but let's say they sticktogether cause they are new. They make about 40-50 mil an hour that might need to be split to let's say 25. Chuck in scanning time, securing holes, rolling holes and a limiited supply of sites and getting ganked and I reckon you'd be better off doing the L3s in HS to your heart's content and getting your L4 skills up.

I remember I paid for my first L4 BS doing C1 and C2 sites when nanos were above 6mil a pop. And then I got ganked hehe. Then it was worth it.




(god I haven't seen a a drake running sites in ages)
King Fu Hostile
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#135 - 2014-10-06 11:48:02 UTC
We just saw :D https://zkillboard.com/kill/41546467/

it was glorious like 2010, what's dscan anyway

Ok, it's pretty evident that C1 and C2 income needs a buff. CCP, hjalp the wormholes!


umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#136 - 2014-10-06 12:13:08 UTC
Bjurn Akely wrote:

...at which point people start crying nerf. Roll


When CCP says it's working as intended. Just wait for the tears when escalations hitting that point...Lol
Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#137 - 2014-10-06 12:15:13 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
We just saw :D https://zkillboard.com/kill/41546467/

it was glorious like 2010, what's dscan anyway

Ok, it's pretty evident that C1 and C2 income needs a buff. CCP, hjalp the wormholes!




Nice juicy drake
AssassinationsdoneWrong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#138 - 2014-10-06 17:30:59 UTC
Rroff wrote:
I've typically over tanked my ships (where it doesn't compromise dps output, etc.) as it takes the pressure off a bit especially if you screw up and pull the wrong trigger or don't pay attention for a moment or something and/or if someone jumps you who has underestimated your ability to fight back it could give you the edge.


Test server doesn't count here Rroff

The Nexus 7's

What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity

Alundil
Rolled Out
#139 - 2014-10-06 18:36:58 UTC
Agatir Solenth wrote:
I'd like to see someone spend 24hrs doing wormhole sites and compare it to 24 hours of incursion running and 24 hours of mission running (with/without salvage).


Do you want someone to die IRL?

Because that's how you get someone to die IRL.

I'm right behind you

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#140 - 2014-10-06 19:07:41 UTC
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:
Test server doesn't count here Rroff


I see someone needs a hug.