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[Proposal] The Space Object Factory - Ship Paintings

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ThundeR X
Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno-Manewrowego
Kindless Outer Space Absolute
#1 - 2014-09-26 11:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ThundeR X
Hello!

I have a proposal related to the recent dev blog:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/one-file-to-rule-them-all

About ship painting, their market availability ect... Why we have to create new "hulls" instead of paint those that already exist?
What am I talking about? Lets consider this, every ship in the future will have one or more painting models, they will be acquired by different ways, but at the end they all will be available on the market. It will end with almost 20 tech 1 frigates for each race in one market category. Ships that are different just by... painting WHICH ARE NOT UNIQUE! because its still "common" way of painting (as its just 1 or 2 available colors instead of stock ship)

It has no sense, but related to the dev blog and the screen inside:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66519/1/ships_low_res.jpg
Look how beautiful all those paintings looks like

Now why don't do it like every customization so far (it worked fine over YEARS!). Like every rigged ship (customized for special tasks) they are sold only by contracts - works fine? YES!

Why don't make the paintings as something like non-unfitable slot (like rigs - can't reused) it reduces redundance of items, and gives the ability to simply paint every ship at almost every painting preset (some made availabe by ccp, some - not. They could be bought by aurums, or by LP's).
Lets go further! - you could use same painting for every ship of same hull type!
For example Scorpion, Scorpion Navy, Rattlesnake, Widow (!) may use same item, and they all would look the same (and still be their main type on ov)!
Or even more, it could be universal painting for lets say... every medium caldari hull ship - why not? (one "bucket of paint" for every ship of the same size and race).

At ov they would look the same - no confusion at large fleets.
In space it would look great, and still - can be simply disabled by client options for optimalization!
Market would be clearly aranged once again.
The items used for paint may be freely thrown into market even when bought by aurums (like plex for example) not like paint BP right now.
Ships would be re-paintable once again! (try to use Paint BP on painted/rigged ship now - nonsense...)
And for the sake of God, it will be simplier to maintain and develop over time for YOU CCP!

Cant we make it better for both game developers and players in the same time?
Please feel free to make some sugestions to this idea, and give your feedback!
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#2 - 2014-09-27 01:53:38 UTC
What.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#3 - 2014-09-27 05:09:03 UTC
TL;DR

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2014-09-27 06:46:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Jack Carrigan wrote:
TL;DR

OP fundamentally misunderstands the problems behind ship painting from an engineering/coding perspective (which, to be fair, I'm still sort of fuzzy on too).

ThundeR X wrote:
Why don't make the paintings as something like non-unfitable slot (like rigs - can't reused)

Because rigs do not affect the actual ship model. Paintjobs do. That is why the current coding architecture REQUIRES a unique hull for each paintjob.

What the DEV Blog was attempting to explain was that they are trying to revise the code so that it will reduce clutter on the "backend"... which will MAYBE allow them to make more improvements in the future (which they are not saying because most probably they are still not sure which ones they want to focus on and/or are even feasible).


edit: and before you say "well, why would CCP ever do such a thing, that is ****** programming" allow me to enlighten you on something I have painfully learned from working as an accountant;

Anything you design now can make perfect sense because it fulfills your needs at the time in the most elegant way... but years in the future, when needs change, some poor sob is going to look at it all and wonder wtf you were thinking when you did it and try to "improve" it without breaking anything else that still works (and is needed)... and the cycle will forever repeat.

How did you Veterans start?
ThundeR X
Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno-Manewrowego
Kindless Outer Space Absolute
#5 - 2014-09-27 09:32:49 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

ThundeR X wrote:
Why don't make the paintings as something like non-unfitable slot (like rigs - can't reused)

Because rigs do not affect the actual ship model. Paintjobs do. That is why the current coding architecture REQUIRES a unique hull for each paintjob.


Please consider Rattlesnake example like this.
NOW:
model/ship/caldari/BattleShip/CB2/Guristas/CB2_T1_Guristas.red
CCP Plan:
model/ship/caldari/BattleShip/cb2_t1:guristas:caldari
HOW IT COULD BE:
model/ship/caldari/BattleShip/cb2_t1:[ANY PAINTING MODEL]:caldari

Its that simple.

I've postet the idea with SOMETHING LIKE RIGS slots becouse they cant be reused, and i'm sure this is essential attribute for paintings.
And about affecting a model in space... We do have T3 cruisers already with 5 modules affecting the ship model in space.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2014-09-27 16:09:21 UTC
The point behind the SOF is to make customization easier.

Until /very/ recently, every ship variation was a different model, with a different skin. That's how the system worked. You couldn't just have a new ship type by going 'use this skin'.

The SOF is designed to have one base model per ship type, and be able to apply customizations to that.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
ThundeR X
Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno-Manewrowego
Kindless Outer Space Absolute
#7 - 2014-09-27 17:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ThundeR X
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The point behind the SOF is to make customization easier.

Until /very/ recently, every ship variation was a different model, with a different skin. That's how the system worked. You couldn't just have a new ship type by going 'use this skin'.

The SOF is designed to have one base model per ship type, and be able to apply customizations to that.


And the point is to allow SOF to read "ship type"+"skin" (base or "fitted") and get rid of blueprints that makes everything unclear.
Nowadays blueprints makes new hull types just for painting and it's a bad thing. It leads nowhere.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2014-09-27 18:23:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
ThundeR X wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The point behind the SOF is to make customization easier.

Until /very/ recently, every ship variation was a different model, with a different skin. That's how the system worked. You couldn't just have a new ship type by going 'use this skin'.

The SOF is designed to have one base model per ship type, and be able to apply customizations to that.


And the point is to allow SOF to read "ship type"+"skin" (base or "fitted") and get rid of blueprints that makes everything unclear.
Nowadays blueprints makes new hull types just for painting and it's a bad thing. It leads nowhere.


Agreed. The current system isn't very good. But right now the code is the problem (which, again, the DEV Blog explains why and that they are working on it).
You may think it is "simple" to alter the code... but personal experience with databases and formulas has taught me otherwise. Nothing is ever that simple.

Case and point: when the visible waypoint route was added to EVE, it was intended to be a purely graphical addition (i.e. you could see what stars you are going to without using the map).
When it was released it borked the autopilot system and automatically set everything to "shortest route." It took more than a week to find and fix the problem. Meanwhile, many freighters were killed.

How did you Veterans start?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#9 - 2014-09-27 19:17:32 UTC
ThundeR X wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The point behind the SOF is to make customization easier.

Until /very/ recently, every ship variation was a different model, with a different skin. That's how the system worked. You couldn't just have a new ship type by going 'use this skin'.

The SOF is designed to have one base model per ship type, and be able to apply customizations to that.


And the point is to allow SOF to read "ship type"+"skin" (base or "fitted") and get rid of blueprints that makes everything unclear.
Nowadays blueprints makes new hull types just for painting and it's a bad thing. It leads nowhere.



The current system is nothing but a prototype. It's not going to stay that way. It's to see if there's a suitable appetite for ship skins.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2014-09-30 14:33:01 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
ThundeR X wrote:

Please consider Rattlesnake example like this.
NOW:
model/ship/caldari/BattleShip/CB2/Guristas/CB2_T1_Guristas.red
CCP Plan:
model/ship/caldari/BattleShip/cb2_t1:guristas:caldari
HOW IT COULD BE:
model/ship/caldari/BattleShip/cb2_t1:[ANY PAINTING MODEL]:caldari


You're correct that the Space Object Factory is an incremental step that doesn't get all the way to enabling what you describe. However, it will make further steps toward that goal much easier.

When discussing possible ship customization features, please keep in mind that the details of low-level implementation (which is where Space Object Factory sits) need not drive the design for such a feature that you'd see as a player. That player-side experience would be planned out and designed by game designers to make sense to you.

So, when you ask for how you'd like that experience to look, don't get too hung up on what's been revealed about the innards of the EVE graphics engine. The engine can evolve to support what the feature needs, rather than the other way around.

I'd be surprised if the designers would want to make you give up a rig slot for any future in-game ship customization, but that won't be a decision coming from me or Team TriLambda. :)

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-10-01 00:04:59 UTC
Confirming I want the black and green of the prospect on every ship I own.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us