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So scamming is banned now? What about insulting other players?

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-09-26 06:16:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Elsa Hayes wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Elsa Hayes wrote:


C O M M O N S E N S E, yes some people slap/punch others more readily than others but those people normally end up with social hours and fines pretty quickly, or jail.
Some people even take pepper sauce enemas should we also take that as a norm?
Some guy did something pretty crazy with an eel, is that another "normal" example?


No, you're dodging the issue. You just said, don't do something that would get you smacked in the head IRL. Well, in my book, there's nothing that should earn you a smack in the head in real life except violent provocation, otherwise it's the person doing the smacking who's in the wrong. I don't know what your examples of 'abnormality' have to do with anything in this discussion though, so I'm going to put them down to being a dodge as well.



I am not dodging anything, go to a bar go to the next guy at the counter and start flinging slurs at him. See what happens, either you earn yourself a smack or maybe he will record the stuff and call the police, in both cases you will get punished. Well if you are lucky he might just go away but the bar tender will most likely kick you out, again punishment.

You seem to think its ok to verbally abuse people, well try that with a police officer for example, its quite obvious that you seem to have completely missed the point which further underlines my case. In a face to face conversation you would not even start bringing up bullshit arguments like this.

When was the last time you left your basement?


I never said it's okay to verbally abuse people at all, now you're putting words in my mouth, which is typical of your type when you have no decent counter argument. You, however, make it clear you have nothing but a personal problem with me now, and that's not my problem. It's also not my problem how you fail to see how it doesn't matter where you are or how you justify violence as a response to a few words. I've been to many bars, and seen a lot of violence over petty things, and it's never justified. In every case, the person initiating the violence is in the wrong. EVERY CASE. So no, you still haven't made a point other than that you're feeling vindictive towards me, hence the vexatious basement reference.

Bottom line is though, if you're initiating physical violence, you're in the wrong. You've slung a lot more than just a few words. And no one is going to get arrested for a few words in a pub.

For the record, I'm banned from the basement. I'm told it's too luxurious for me.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#42 - 2014-09-26 06:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Priscilla Project
Remiel Pollard wrote:
[quote=Priscilla Project]Maybe your book is wrong?


For a few hundred years a "smack" taught people to be respectfull.
Then, after a these few hundred years where it simply WORKED ... assholes said "NO IT'S BAD!"

Nowadays people lack respect towards eachother.

Coincidence ... right?



Respect is taught through pain, not words.


> No, that's how you incite fear.

Wrong. It taught people that going too far or saying/doing crap brings pain.
Nowadays socieities avoid pain like hell, which shows that they do not understand it at all.

It's the hot pan that makes you stop touching it,
not the mother's words "DON'T TOUCH IT IT'S HOT!"

That's not FEAR, that's respect! You respect the fact that the pan is hot,
you do not fear touching it because it is!



> Respect is earned, fear is forced.
You take your false knowledge and build up on it here and also are on a completely different road.



> There's no such thing as teaching respect ...

Wrong.



> and don't ever try to tell me that real life violence makes you in any way a teacher.
Oh yes, I am such a violent person for smacking someone in the face when he deserves it. Roll



Modern society grows weaklings who are afraid of pain.
It doesn't matter if you agree or not, hundreds of years of human societies prove me right.


Nowadays people are completely blinded by fear of pain and the bullshit
the politically correct people spread everywhere.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-09-26 06:18:33 UTC
Pepper Sauce Enema, I'm going to have to try that.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-09-26 06:19:29 UTC
This thread needs to be locked. It's nothing but troll bait and ranting.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-09-26 06:20:59 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
This thread needs to be locked. It's nothing but troll bait and ranting.

Well ... report the **** out of it. I, for one, refuse to keep participating in this disconnection from humanity.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-09-26 06:22:42 UTC
Priscilla Project wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
[quote=Priscilla Project]Maybe your book is wrong?


For a few hundred years a "smack" taught people to be respectfull.
Then, after a these few hundred years where it simply WORKED ... assholes said "NO IT'S BAD!"

Nowadays people lack respect towards eachother.

Coincidence ... right?



Respect is taught through pain, not words.


> No, that's how you incite fear.

Wrong. It taught people that going too far or saying/doing crap brings pain.
Nowadays socieities avoid pain like hell, which shows that they do not understand it at all.

> Respect is earned, fear is forced.
You take your false knowledge and build up on it here and also are on a completely different road.

> There's no such thing as teaching respect ...

Wrong.

> and don't ever try to tell me that real life violence makes you in any way a teacher.
Oh yes, I am such a violent person for smacking someone in the face when he deserves it. Roll



Modern society grows weaklings.
It doesn't matter if you agree or not,
hundreds of years of human societies prove me right.


Well, go live in the middle east then, see how well your brand of 'respect' functions there.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#47 - 2014-09-26 06:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Diamond Zerg
Elsa Hayes, you're missing the point and what you're describing is not relevant to this discussion.

The issue at hand is: Is it ok to have enemies in EVE? Is it ok to express that verbally, have rivals that you continually target, and generally gain resources at another person's expense?

If EVE is the kind of sandbox that it is advertised as, the answer to all those questions should be "yes".

Please STOP the uncivil responses everyone, this is a valid, reasonable point of discussion and you are going to get my thread locked.
Hi.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-09-26 06:29:15 UTC
Please permanently ban Elsa Hayes for harassing the real life personality of Remiel Pollard, whom I am championing for.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#49 - 2014-09-26 06:34:51 UTC
Priscilla Project wrote:
Maybe your book is wrong?


For a few hundred years a "smack" taught people to be respectfull.
Then, after a these few hundred years where it simply WORKED ... assholes said "NO IT'S BAD!"

Nowadays people lack respect towards eachother.

Coincidence ... right?



Respect is taught through pain, not words.


I had a martial arts teacher hit me in the face because my hands weren't in the correct place and then he told me pain is best teacher. My hands always stayed where they were supposed to be after that. I have to agree with you that a little bit of punishment goes a long way. I am not saying burn a child's hand with a stove eye to teach them not to touch hot things because there is a limit to how respect is taught but being totally passive isn't the way either. Sometimes words don't work as well as the back of a hand.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#50 - 2014-09-26 06:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
You and your teacher belong to the middle east.

All the rude baddies belong there.......








Wait a minute it seems a had this hubble telescope lenses painted rose strraped to my head nwm.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#51 - 2014-09-26 06:42:30 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Sigh. Not this thread again.

This is what happens when people can't tell the difference between real life and game. No, scamming in-game is not banned. No, playing a "villain" in-game will not get you banned. YES, taking your douchbaggery out of game WILL bring forth some much deserved butthurt.

The moral of the story is if you're trying to hone your real life douche and schadenfreude skills then you'll need to find another venue to do it in. Not being able to tell the difference between in-game and real life is not an excuse to satiate your sadistic urgings.


You clearly haven't read the article. So much douchebaggery has already been taken to voice coms and never ever been a problem. The article highlights this, and don't make me post the video of Sky Fighters making CCP Gargant sing on coms again please. The article makes it plain that the issue is just not as simply solved by 'keeping it in game'. It's not. That argument is dead by virtue of it never having been an issue before now.


And they clearly go further than this - banning people based on what 'might' have happened in TS.
Remember, the logs showed nothing that resembled real life harassment - yet bans were still handed out.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-09-26 06:42:36 UTC
Burl en Daire wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Maybe your book is wrong?


For a few hundred years a "smack" taught people to be respectfull.
Then, after a these few hundred years where it simply WORKED ... assholes said "NO IT'S BAD!"

Nowadays people lack respect towards eachother.

Coincidence ... right?



Respect is taught through pain, not words.


I had a martial arts teacher hit me in the face because my hands weren't in the correct place and then he told me pain is best teacher. My hands always stayed where they were supposed to be after that. I have to agree with you that a little bit of punishment goes a long way. I am not saying burn a child's hand with a stove eye to teach them not to touch hot things because there is a limit to how respect is taught but being totally passive isn't the way either. Sometimes words don't work as well as the back of a hand.


Learning discipline for traditional martial arts is not the same thing as learning to respect other people, or learning how to earn it. The internet itself and this very game both prove respect can be won and lost with no real violence at all. If you have to use violence to make someone fear you, then you have failed to understand what it would take to have them respect you. I for one would rather be disrespected completely than feared.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-09-26 06:50:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
If you truly believe that the only way to gain respect is to hit people, then you have some issues that you need to TALK through with a professional. Also the thought of a martial arts teacher hitting a kid while screaming "You racka disciprine" is kind of funny & only proves that it is in fact the teacher that... Racks disciprine.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#54 - 2014-09-26 06:59:09 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
In the wake of the recent TOS change regarding harassment, I would like to ask a few questions.

Firstly, is social engineering, lying, scamming etc now considered harassment or unfair targeting of certain players?
What about trash talk, rivalries, and generally insulting other players? Are those things considered harassment?

Personally I believe the game is made much better by the existence of villains.
The issue at hand is: Is it ok to have enemies in EVE? Is it ok to express that verbally, have rivals that you continually target, and generally gain resources at another person's expense?

If EVE is the kind of sandbox that it is advertised as, the answer to all those questions should be "yes".

Please STOP the uncivil responses everyone, this is a valid, reasonable point of discussion and you are going to get my thread locked.


dont ask ccp to tell you where the line is. just take it from ccp falcon; if they told players where the line was, there would be players who didnt cross the line. knowing what the rules are means you can follow them, and this is obviously a bad thing.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#55 - 2014-09-26 07:03:01 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Read this and IBTL.

tl;dr: Don't associate with whoever CCP considers undesirable and you'll be fine.


are the undesirable people clearly defined, or is that another grey area?

what about "association"?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#56 - 2014-09-26 07:07:12 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Burl en Daire wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Maybe your book is wrong?


For a few hundred years a "smack" taught people to be respectfull.
Then, after a these few hundred years where it simply WORKED ... assholes said "NO IT'S BAD!"

Nowadays people lack respect towards eachother.

Coincidence ... right?



Respect is taught through pain, not words.


I had a martial arts teacher hit me in the face because my hands weren't in the correct place and then he told me pain is best teacher. My hands always stayed where they were supposed to be after that. I have to agree with you that a little bit of punishment goes a long way. I am not saying burn a child's hand with a stove eye to teach them not to touch hot things because there is a limit to how respect is taught but being totally passive isn't the way either. Sometimes words don't work as well as the back of a hand.


Learning discipline for traditional martial arts is not the same thing as learning to respect other people, or learning how to earn it. The internet itself and this very game both prove respect can be won and lost with no real violence at all. If you have to use violence to make someone fear you, then you have failed to understand what it would take to have them respect you. I for one would rather be disrespected completely than feared.




This is going to sound worse than it is but I am going to type it out anyways.

My son doesn't fear me, his family or most of the rest of the population but he does respect them as people, he does respect their ideas and beliefs and he respects their religion, sex, job and all the other things that make people different from one another because me, my wife and our family wasn't afraid to bust his chops when he stepped out of line.

My son is in honors and all AP classes in school, carries straight A's, has never been a discipline problem, shaves his head yearly to raise money for cancer and is loved by anyone he meets. He is a good kid and it is because of a stiff hand, we don't take crap off of him and I am proud to be his father and I know for a fact that he stands up for himself and others, including strangers. I have seen him do it. It is because we are hard on him and no other reason, I am not saying hurt people but being strong enough to stand up for yourself and others doesn't come from a strong talking to.

Political correctness has created a generation of candy-asses, especially in America. My Freshman son has enough self respect, respect for others and intelligence to not be bullied and definitely not bullied over the internet, maybe some of these "adults" should suck it up and HTFU. He will take a beating before he is bullied or stands by and watches someone be bullied. I have seen him do it and I proud that he is more of a man at 14 than most men twice his age.

You should meet his sister, she takes after my wife. Wifey plays roller derby and is a blackbelt, my daughter has a broken finger right now because she stood up for herself. She told the doctor she didn't need pain meds and next time she won't block the boy from kicking her with her hand. I don't raise pansy kids and they will be strong, independent and successful people because we weren't afraid to bust them in the head when they stepped out of line.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#57 - 2014-09-26 07:07:23 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:


Please STOP the uncivil responses everyone, this is a valid, reasonable point of discussion and you are going to get my thread locked.


You obviously haven't been here long.

Allow me to explain how moderation works here.

If the topic doesn't make CCP look good or is remotely controversial, ISDs allow fanboys to troll the thread into the ground then lock it for trolling.

If the topic is self-serving happy talk and marketing nonsense, the thread is fastidiously cleaned and it dies a natural death when the brown-nosers get tired of bumping it.

For best results, post threads late-night US TZ.
ISD Ezwal can't be bothered to moderate until 10:30 AM, East Coast because waking up early is hard.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2014-09-26 07:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Burl en Daire wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Burl en Daire wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Maybe your book is wrong?


For a few hundred years a "smack" taught people to be respectfull.
Then, after a these few hundred years where it simply WORKED ... assholes said "NO IT'S BAD!"

Nowadays people lack respect towards eachother.

Coincidence ... right?



Respect is taught through pain, not words.


I had a martial arts teacher hit me in the face because my hands weren't in the correct place and then he told me pain is best teacher. My hands always stayed where they were supposed to be after that. I have to agree with you that a little bit of punishment goes a long way. I am not saying burn a child's hand with a stove eye to teach them not to touch hot things because there is a limit to how respect is taught but being totally passive isn't the way either. Sometimes words don't work as well as the back of a hand.


Learning discipline for traditional martial arts is not the same thing as learning to respect other people, or learning how to earn it. The internet itself and this very game both prove respect can be won and lost with no real violence at all. If you have to use violence to make someone fear you, then you have failed to understand what it would take to have them respect you. I for one would rather be disrespected completely than feared.




This is going to sound worse than it is but I am going to type it out anyways.

My son doesn't fear me, his family or most of the rest of the population but he does respect them as people, he does respect their ideas and beliefs and he respects their religion, sex, job and all the other things that make people different from one another because me, my wife and our family wasn't afraid to bust his chops when he stepped out of line.

My son is in honors and all AP classes in school, carries straight A's, has never been a discipline problem, shaves his head yearly to raise money for cancer and is loved by anyone he meets. He is a good kid and it is because of a stiff hand, we don't take crap off of him and I am proud to be his father and I know for a fact that he stands up for himself and others, including strangers. I have seen him do it. It is because we are hard on him and no other reason, I am not saying hurt people but being strong enough to stand up for yourself and others doesn't come from a strong talking to.

Political correctness has created a generation of candy-asses, especially in America. My Freshman son has enough self respect, respect for others and intelligence to not be bullied and definitely not bullied over the internet, maybe some of these "adults" should suck it up and HTFU. He will take a beating before he is bullied or stands by and watches someone be bullied. I have seen him do it and I proud that he is more of a man at 14 than most men twice his age.

You should meet his sister, she takes after my wife. Wifey plays roller derby and is a blackbelt, my daughter has a broken finger right now because she stood up for herself. She told the doctor she didn't need pain meds and next time she won't block the boy from kicking her with her hand. I don't raise pansy kids and they will be strong, independent and successful people because we weren't afraid to bust them in the head when they stepped out of line.


TL;DR - Beating your children is pretty cool, try it out.

Edit: Nah, it didn't sound worse than it is at all. It's just plain wrong.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#59 - 2014-09-26 07:10:53 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
This thread should certainly not be locked. All I'm doing is asking (out of interest) a few questions in a civil fashion.

Are we allowed to speak to other players negatively in EVE? Or does that constitute harassment?


yes you are. but its like driving on a road and the only people who know the speed limit are the police, who encourage you to "be the racer" and drive however you want. but thats okay because anyone, with some common sense, should know what a reasonable speed on this road is, righ? oh and they dont give tickets for breaking the (non-posted) speed limit, they just execute you.

welcome to eve, enjoy!

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#60 - 2014-09-26 07:11:12 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

Well if that's the case, if what's appropriate today is going to be inappropriate tomorrow, and vice versa, just based on CCP's whim, then that is a problem.

Yeah, but this has ALWAYS been the case. It's only a "problem" now that the eye of CCP has turned to a group of undesirables who also happen to be prolific forum posters or associated with prolific forum posters.