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Language Chat Channel Consolidation With Oceanus

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Odla Arerreh
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2014-09-27 20:31:00 UTC
So I may speak spanish in the main chat right. I mean you are cutting the only place where we can freely talk our lang.... Im so wanting to see the ruskies and the germanies talking in the main chat :)

Bad move ccp. I normally dont post, but when i do, its to complain.

comprende?
Vixorz
Cabronazos
#202 - 2014-09-27 20:51:12 UTC
This is a bad idea.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#203 - 2014-09-27 20:58:39 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
tasman devil
Puritans
#204 - 2014-09-27 21:07:13 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

How come you moderate this forum post more than the chat channels ?

Just asking.

Find some GMs an ISD guys and make a round robin system for them. I mean, is it really that hard to find 3-5 people per language to sit in the rooms? (and by the way answering questions right then and there instead to ticket everything to kingdom come?)

Or as a solution you could implement that "need help to nuke this channel right NOW button" that has been brought up at page 2-3? People here are creative and resourceful if you pose them with a riddle, they will give you a better answer each time.

Just saying.

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Darkblad
Doomheim
#205 - 2014-09-27 21:15:22 UTC
tasman devil wrote:
How come you moderate this forum post more than the chat channels ?

Just asking.
ISD CCL doesn't moderate Chat channels. Forums only.
But aside of that, it appears like it's actually really hard to find people willing to apply for Chat moderation ISD (you can't be logged in with your player and ISD account simultaneously. For German ISDs, I met two of them so far). On the other hand, it might be that the time until an application is processed takes a very long time (as per my own experience).

NPE – ISD – RIP
tasman devil
Puritans
#206 - 2014-09-27 21:45:25 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
tasman devil wrote:
How come you moderate this forum post more than the chat channels ?

Just asking.
ISD CCL doesn't moderate Chat channels. Forums only.
But aside of that, it appears like it's actually really hard to find people willing to apply for Chat moderation ISD (you can't be logged in with your player and ISD account simultaneously. For German ISDs, I met two of them so far). On the other hand, it might be that the time until an application is processed takes a very long time (as per my own experience).

The not logged in simultaneously part could be the main problem here. Most people would see that as a waste of free time on the benefit or others. Perhaps they should change that.

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Cismet
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#207 - 2014-09-27 22:10:46 UTC
I can't see how this is a good idea. If you sell a product in a country, you surely support the language by definition? If you don't want to support the language then don't sell the product there seems the order of the day. If you sell the product in their country then surely not having the caveat "But you have to know how to speak another language" is inappropriate.

Telling players to just go make their own channels doesn't solve the problem because you are still responsible for moderating that chat. If someone is racist to me in swahili in a private channel I've created, or indeed any other "private" form of communication, how does that lessen your responsibility to investigate and intervene given that your terms of service have still been breached?

This seems like another example of a sledgehammer being used to crack a nut and is just going to hurt the people from these countries. I only speak the one language (badly) and I can see this is a terrible idea. You still have the responsibility to moderate the chat, and people will still complain to you about the conduct in these chats, the only difference is you got rid of some helpful official channels where people could congregate.

Seems like I'm saying this a lot recently, but way to drive chunks of your players away.
Solecist Project
#208 - 2014-09-27 22:18:19 UTC
Cismet wrote:
I can't see how this is a good idea. If you sell a product in a country, you surely support the language by definition? If you don't want to support the language then don't sell the product there seems the order of the day. If you sell the product in their country then surely not having the caveat "But you have to know how to speak another language" is inappropriate.

Telling players to just go make their own channels doesn't solve the problem because you are still responsible for moderating that chat. If someone is racist to me in swahili in a private channel I've created, or indeed any other "private" form of communication, how does that lessen your responsibility to investigate and intervene given that your terms of service have still been breached?

This seems like another example of a sledgehammer being used to crack a nut and is just going to hurt the people from these countries. I only speak the one language (badly) and I can see this is a terrible idea. You still have the responsibility to moderate the chat, and people will still complain to you about the conduct in these chats, the only difference is you got rid of some helpful official channels where people could congregate.

Seems like I'm saying this a lot recently, but way to drive chunks of your players away.

Err ... sorry, but no.

If you create a chatchannel and someone insults you ...
... and you - instead of blocking, muting and/or kicking him - write a petition instead ...
... then I have to question your mental state.

They aren't there to protect you from things that you can easily deal yourself with.

If what you said was true, then times for replies for petitions would be tenfold.

It is perfectly reasonable to assume that people have some sort of self responsibility,
especially in EVE ONLINE and especially especially when it's not an officially supported chatroom.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Darkblad
Doomheim
#209 - 2014-09-27 22:31:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Solecist Project wrote:
If you create a chatchannel and someone insults you ...
... and you - instead of blocking, muting and/or kicking him - write a petition instead ...
... then I have to question your mental state.
Not really. Take a standard troll who likes to insult others just for the reaction. No matter who the target is. You block him and you're fine with that. The troll however, can continue to harass other players in the same or different channels, endlessly in theory.
It even might be that he breaks this part of the Terms Of Service
TOS wrote:
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.

(added this as it also matches the topic:)
You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)
For me, CCP can't evade their responsibility to act in such cases just by removing chat channels provided by the server.
Tickets will continue to be filed and CCP will continue to encounter the language barrier. The chat channel where those events occur just no longer are official channels.
Nothing gained by CCP in the long term, but the existing communities of those channels that got deleted are left in the cold and have to find ways to reorganize, with the difficulties already repeatedly described in this thread.

NPE – ISD – RIP
Juvenius Drakonius
#210 - 2014-09-27 22:43:15 UTC
True there is a lot of trolling in language specific channels, but it gives new players a place to start sensing what is EVE about. As a Spanish speaking Player I can say in full confidence this will lead to a bad new player experience in our language base.

EVE Online is a great game but if CCP wants more new player retention of a world wide played game on one server you need to address language barriers, There was talk of translating the client to Spanish but nothing came of this.

Games like WOW, Minecraft, etc....have found great markets in Spanish speaking players and emerging markets like Latin america, there is opportunity here, but this news just seams like there walking away from this direction.

There is no shame in saying you don't know something, and there is no glory in keeping knolege to yourself.
Solecist Project
#211 - 2014-09-27 22:58:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Darkblad wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
If you create a chatchannel and someone insults you ...
... and you - instead of blocking, muting and/or kicking him - write a petition instead ...
... then I have to question your mental state.
Not really. Take a standard troll who likes to insult others just for the reaction. No matter who the target is. You block him and you're fine with that. The troll however, can continue to harass other players in the same or different channels, endlessly in theory.

Yeah no ...

I'm not advocating for removal of the language chats here, btw.
I'm saying that, in player created chatrooms ... trolls need to be kicked
and players have the power of self responsibility to do so. (is that correctly said in english? -.-)

I wasn't even talking about trolls, I was talking about what he was talking about,
which didn't seem to be about trolls in general.

If you get insulted because you don't get along with him ... you block him.
If it's your channel, you can kick him as you want anyway.
If it's clearly a troll ... kick him.

When there is a person in a channel that gets blocked by many,
this one person is actually a security threat for the whole channel,
because he can have huge influence over all the new people that come into said channel.

Please don't mistake my "individual that insulted you" as a "person that is clearly a troll".

Trolls need to be handled differently than people one simply does not get along with.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#212 - 2014-09-27 23:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
I care for the company and the game.

I can only agree with absolutely most of you who say that ...

This
is
a
huge
mistake
unless
they plan something
they aren't telling us!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#213 - 2014-09-28 00:42:10 UTC
Ok so I told a few people to tell their respective chat channels that this was happening. They ignored it. Sadly enough you can post a huge issue and most of the people dont care it seems like. Well my guess is in a few days you will see a lot of player created chat channels for languages.

So everyone do that now start the transition.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Migui X'hyrrn
No More Dramas Only Llamas
#214 - 2014-09-28 00:49:32 UTC
Join language channels and link this because CCP has not even post in the Motd that those channels are going to disappear.

Migui is running for CSM10!
Mihnea Tepes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2014-09-28 01:28:58 UTC
like ccp care, they are not going to discuss it , they just announced it here

leave that illusion that they care, just send them our money to their acc


this is how it works ;)
Mihnea Tepes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2014-09-28 01:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mihnea Tepes
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


we are paying you and giving you your salary, thats the fact and you are doing your worse
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#217 - 2014-09-28 01:50:27 UTC
Mihnea Tepes wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


we are paying you and giving you your salary, thats the fact and you are doing your worse



ISD is not a paid position, is a volunteer position.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Anomylous
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#218 - 2014-09-28 02:32:09 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Ok so I told a few people to tell their respective chat channels that this was happening. They ignored it.

That's just Human Behavior 101. Only on the day the channels are gone people will start reacting to it.
GorlamAGJ
Pulse Rifle
#219 - 2014-09-28 09:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: GorlamAGJ
Language Chat Channel Consolidation... aha.

I really like this logic.

Remove "official" supported language channels - hencefore consolidation - and then what?

Does that CCP free of the "legal" burden to moderate and - if necessary - to remove inappropriate players? No.
Does that reduce the amount of "tickets / petitions"? No.
Will CCP be able to reduce manpower and therefore costs? Yes. At risk of EvE becomming one of the worst supported games.

In the last 12 Month or so, there have been a few geopolitical developements. Scotland, Ukraine and so on.

It would be really not realistic, to think, that such events would not find repercussions a global game minus china & afaik india (ask anybode who works in a real Global Player Company)?

But punishing the whole communities of eve with a step like that?

The language channels have always been the first point of contact with real eve after a new player has been "removed" from rookie channel.

The language channels have always a central point of contact for returning players or players who where without corp for any reason.

The language channels have always been a central point where eve politics and events have been discussed.

CCP will remove those central points and forces the players to find new channels, who will be displayed where?

Do i think it is a good idea.

No.

That will hit ccp where it hurts. On the income side.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#220 - 2014-09-28 09:29:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Ok so I told a few people to tell their respective chat channels that this was happening. They ignored it. Sadly enough you can post a huge issue and most of the people dont care it seems like. Well my guess is in a few days you will see a lot of player created chat channels for languages.

So everyone do that now start the transition.


The call on the Spanish channel has brought 3 more people here, and I will keep asking to post here if even in Spanish.

If nothing changes, then we'll have to object the change and ask for the return of those channels.

BTW, has someone contacted the CSM? Is there any CSM who speaks a non-supported language and can understand what those channels mean to our communities?