Wormholes

Last time CCP released actual stats, blue loot only accounted for 18% of all PVE income in New Eden.

You would have to run these sites every day for around a month to get a truly accurate picture. Can't you just ask CCP for the data, corbexx?

And right here is a HUGE draw for leaving W-space. Can't test sites on TQ because it's too dangerous, but incursions are perfectly safe to test.


Thanks for taking the time to collect this data. I'm trying to be optimistic that it will be addressed while also taking into account the (lack of) safety in W-space compared to Hisec, but it's not easy.


Edit:

They have the drop tables with chances for all types of loot, as well as exact NPC compositions and chances for extras or other modifications. They could easily pick prices for one market day, and generate average values for each site, given the percentage chances for all drops, comparing it against number of NPCs and total EHP, DPS, and utility effects of each wave, to rate each site.

Given the numbers you've posted, is your impression that they are interested in getting more exact numbers of the kind only CCP can obtain? Or do they still only want to look at and talk about cap escalations and blanket apply that to all of W-space?


And speaking of cap escalations, given your experience and numbers for C5/C6, how would the income change if you could only cap escalate once?

Most of this is sadly nda, i'm working on some ideas but need to bounce it about between alot of people. sadly i'm super busy what with pos info and some other things so thi is sort of a side project at the moment.

Right got some info (and permission to post it).

This is for C6 fully escalated sites 171 sites run (so HUGE sample size compared to the c1 to c4 stuff as its cap escalations doesnt matter what site since we dont do them just the escalation.)

Average of 690million per site. Average of 7 minutes 42 seconds per site. Average of 270 mill/hour per person.

Better than C4 to C1 but thats fully escalated and with a fair sized group, if you had just 5 people you would make alot more. without cap escalation its going to drop a **** load maybe half that, potentially less.

As a siege cycle is 5 mins, and with warping times etc. That would more put you at a site every 15 mins or so.

Assume your site running fleet around 20b+ worth, you would need something like 30 sites to replace it if ilost, so around 7-8 hours grind of sites to recover potentinal loss. But of course if you have like 30 guys to feed, and you haven't had more than 2 sites spawn for a week. The whole isk per hour is very fickle.

Thank you, those numbers are similar what my experience has been. (Much more impactful when you post up the numbers :) ).

So we can see just how big the jump is between the lower class and high class wormholes with not much middle ground in between. Really puts it in perspective no?

So really the question is what is CCP gonna do about it? I know Corbexx has said there is stuff he is working on and NDA and so on but it serves to reinforce the discussion point. Why would a newer player join wh space when they have l4/incursion income streams and kspace content streams. It really isn't a good idea.

And I think we can all agree that current POS mechanincs and role security is crap, cumbersome and could vastly be improved.

I like that youre posting these numbers but this is highly inefficient for escalations so I'm assuming you run sites with a ton of people that aren't needed.

if you look at minimum numbers, you have 4 cap pilots, loki, booster, salvager. I'm calling this 6 pilots as at the very least the booster or salvager is an alt.

A crew like this can very comfortably run 4 sites an hour including all travel and salvage (5 if theyre any good).
(This is just warping to the site at zero, no making BMs or whatever)

At 700m/site this works out to (700 x 4)/6 = 466mil/hour/toon
Obviously this scales very fast if you start using alts.

That said, you numbers do post a more accurate value for a large corp that involves many people in their site running so also good to know.

Thanks for the hard work on this on Corbexx and the other people that helped him gathering data.

I hope this gets results with CCP in terms of some dev time put into PVE activities and how they are run and not a straight up arbitrary boost to numbers for the sake of a needed buff.

EDIT: I also hope the arbitrary changes to MNR drop rates to support the little thought they have put into the Reverse Engineering and T3 production changes will be looked at combined with any changes that get made to PVE income as both activities are not self supporting and are reliant on the farming and building proccess to retain their value.

Corbexx, I hope the Devs have understood that in wormhole space, Isk per hour is a value well seperated from reality, both due to the time "Needed" to allow PVE at all, and that the sites cannot be continually run as they are gone when they are gone.
Isk per week at x hours a day is far more realistic.

I know you will have told them repeatedly, but do they truly understand?

Either way, your work and efforts are invaluable, thank you.