Assembly Hall

You got podded enough to blow 325 million ISK on cloning fees? Were you PvP training? Because you can't get podded doing PvE unless I missed something.

You have been playing FAR longer than I have, and in my opinion, you need to learn to manage money, rather than push for changing cloning costs. I've upgraded past the skill point limit a couple times, and been podded as well. Yet I can still manage to afford to update clone all while keeping a ship wrapped around my capsule for more pewpew. That's coming from somebody that has only played a month or so.

agreed, my history of PVP have been horrible FC choices of leaving single targets alone for attacking a target on a gate in a system of 300 reds as if the other reds in system wouldnt respond, or you meet blobs.

My clone i think cost 52m? which is the minimum i need for 154m sp. so without implants even then a death if a good amount when you dont make isk or takes most of a day to make up for a frigate death. So now i avoid PvP and have to try and get an alt up to go do that and keep it limited.

o/

Just updating this thread after the announced jump changes, and this EN24 article (thanks for the nod, Matterall).

Medical clone costs are obviously an older mechanic than jump fatigue. Despite this explanation, it's still part of the game and they're about to coexist as game mechanics. If this is allowed to happen, the message sent by CCP would seem to be something along the lines of stop playing the game so much, you're exceeding your share of load on our servers.

That's a relatively serious accusation to make, but it is a simple fix, and mostly a mistake of treating medical clone replacement as if EVE was default free-to-play.

With just one character at 100 million SP I could exceed the value of a PLEX in medical clone costs, within a week. That's assuming I only lose my pod every other outing. a PLEX per week just to play with one character. I don't see how a player is supposed to have that type of income per character.

Most, if not all other aspects of the game (as well as common sense) promote SP as a good idea. But medical clone costs make me wonder if subscriptions are designed to taper off after a few years.

meanwhile, dear everyone in EVE: Don't die?

thank you for replying.

Nevermind my org, it's true, I'm covered, and I've made up my mind to make myself a strategic asset-only. I've had my fill of risk-free PVE before arriving here, but now it's time to see what I can bring down to bear for the sake of my FC.

As for your org. Assuming the highest reimbursement category available to you, how many losses can you incur before your medical clone costs are out of pocket?

If you do a drill-down of all the orgs that have a reimbursement policy in place, and assume their best reimbursement category, how many of them provide reimbursement that will cover clone costs, until eventually the character requires an injection of ISK for medical clones?

How much gameplay are you being kept from, by medical clone costs. I see you spend a lot of time shooting deployables in high sec, and participating in irrelevant lowsec PVP where pods are left alone by all but the more killmail-hungry groups. I assume the safety of your pod was a consideration in these gameplay choices. Are you free of this issue now that you've made a sarcastic remark on the stellar reimbursement policy I have so graciously been covered by?

So Aren't you the one who stands to get hit consistently by Med Clone costs out of pocket, or is your plan to stay in highsec shooting MTUs forever?

What I'm saying is it's cute that you feel safe, but that's due to your risk averse choices. Medical clone costs affect everyone, and especially those who are not GSF.

Are you about to tell me the solution to medical clone costs is... don't die? I hope I'm not the one to break this to you, but some groups, like my groups, promote ship loss on OPS, lest we become station camped like BL

We're not just skilled, we're suicidal. so please try to kill me before we kill you. In fact, make me primary, and get my pod so some other corp in a hictor doesn't get a lone pod kill to justify his existence.

I need my reimbursements so I can reship and throw myself at you again.

No I don't think we're trolling, we're just being mean. And when I replied to you, I may have been on ambien (I was).

Anyway, ishtar ratting for three years, then MTUs, then lowsec.. I think we are on directly opposite paths here, except I don't plan to rat. I recall doing that in a drake in Curse, back in 2009. It was not fun. The activities you list are either PVE or Non-Sov PVP, so I'm still not sure you can relate.

This isn't about being afraid to lose muhpod, it's about enjoying welpy live people-content but being unable to afford it indefinitely. You've decided not to deal with it, is that correct?

Just join Miniluv. Serve your FC, serve your alliance on the strategic level, get mega-rich doing it & make publets mad.

+1 for proposal to reduce Medical Clone costs.

I can understand the issue of having to upgrade multiple Medical Clones. Hell, I only have one character active and I don't like the cost of upgrading it's Medical Clone.



DMC

No way - sorry for being that frank here.

The one and most outstanding difference between Eve and any other MMO has been that particular part. The brutal consequences of bad management of ones character - which mainly refers to the usage of medical clones, implants and jumpclones.

As of today its completely free to get a jump clone due to several corporations offering that kind of service - so that part doesnt even require any big personal management anymore. Implants - well i am not starting to talk about inflation and availability here - this is a self-runner.

So what is left to manage seriously? Keeping your clone updated and freeking pay for it. If your character becomes that smart you force the clone producers to invest a hell of time and technology to stuff all that smartness into a new body. The risk= reward principles of Eve would be completely disabled by lowering those prices. No one forces anyone to become smarter in Eve - its your personal decision. You can leave your skill queue empty and save money that way.

I'm enjoying the Eve Vegas stream very much. I'm looking forward to the goodies that come with the HD subscription.

Thankfully, and oddly, the accounts that I am uprooting don't expire until late December. So regarding Foxfour's teaser that something is happening... cool, this issue has already been addressed beyond what I hoped at EVE Vegas, and I can wait until December.

I want to keep playing. I will keep playing. If I started downsizing without explaining myself clearly, that would make me a walkout and it would be very immature. I should share my thoughts for the sake of communication. I also think the talking points listed in FoxFour's presentation miss me by quite a bit, and I still have some explaining to do. Things like "lack of choice," "punishes older players," and the 4% ISK sink figure, specifically.

"Choice" never would have occurred to me as a reason to inquire about something like medical clone costs. For me, this is all about the math. maths. Specifically, an equitable relationship between the player and their organization, where the player contributes their time and energy in return for a reasonable amount of support in replacing losses. You know, sustainable.

I am interested in what type of choices you have in mind for medical clone costs. It was completely unexpected, but ok. In the meantime, as they say, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

Regarding reimbursements. They're an excellent indicator of a successful organization, and confidence. Great, but reimbursements are abstract and outside of the game mechanics--members have to apply for reimbursement ~somewhere~ and are subject to review, and only then is the "give money" function used. If reimbursements were handled in-game, then maybe it's something that could be balanced, but for now I hope you agree it's out-of-bounds.

And it should be. Losses need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, which requires human intuition. I don't see you replacing that one, or organizations putting their ISK into such a system if it was created (please tell me we're on the same page here).

Suggesting reimbursements as a solution to medical clone costs is kinda bad, too. It's basically suggesting a player farms their organization. For someone like me, with several accounts that are not controlled with ISBoxer or used for mining, that's the big question. What does this joker plan to do, welp several characters at a time?

To answer that question definitively with a "no," especially without ISBoxer, I can't multibox at all without admitting to some degree that I was not playing at my best, while split between more than one client on grid.

Having accepted this downsizing, and the RP of my characters being put on ice or not being at the helm of their own account, I'm starting to see this as a good thing.

Especially considering jump fatigue changes, and decloaking changes to a lesser degree, it seems multiboxing in null is a completely different meta. Not that copypaste ISBoxer gameplay was ever my thing--it isn't, never was, I won't miss it. But in order to absolve myself of the guilt and even the perception that I'm not contributing the same thing as the next player, it's time to go uniboxing.

Devs and players have talked about ship stashes in response to upcoming changes, and seem to be okay with it. I'm thinking along those lines, but slightly different.

Yes, medical clone costs punish higher SP players. But an even bigger issue worth considering is those characters, once they are trained to a satisfactory level, can stop training and then share an account with other characters. Looking back, that strikes me as more important than my 20 million ISK per pod.

As for the ISK sink, that 4% doesn't reveal anything about assets never undocked, and player behavior that never took place, due to medical clone costs. You can't balance for gameplay that never happens, which is what medical clone costs do. At least for me, it influences my decisions.

4%... how does that compare to other ISK sinks that go to Bob, like abandoned drones, for example. Which, unlike other items lost to explosions, are not tractored by an MTU...