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Titan fair to bump or not?

First post First post
Author
Talon Draygo
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2014-09-26 20:50:07 UTC
If you were in a null sec power bloc and used supers instead of tornados, this wouldnt be an issue. What were you thinking?
Tirelion
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#102 - 2014-09-27 01:45:07 UTC
#freeaglon I'd have bumped it too. So would any of you @ CCP.
Amaya Rei
Soul Takers
Pen Is Out
#103 - 2014-09-27 06:49:28 UTC
Still Waiting.

Let the view count climb.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#104 - 2014-09-27 16:16:42 UTC
council of nullsec more like
Jazz Caden
Convicts and Savages
#105 - 2014-09-27 18:36:49 UTC
On an unrelated note... How did you get so many likes Trouser?
#FreeAlgon
Liquid Spacerich
Doomheim
#106 - 2014-09-27 20:30:44 UTC
Last I heard Aglon is still banned and now after 4 or 5 years of playing he is going to unsubscribe his other two accounts.

Do they really hate their players this much.
Drakan290
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2014-09-28 01:17:03 UTC
Liquid Spacerich wrote:


Do they really hate their players this much.


Unless you are part of a multi-thousand player power bloc, probably.
Empress Sarum
Doomheim
#108 - 2014-09-28 07:45:45 UTC
I spent the last 20 minutes reading this entire thread [and the evenews24 article], and I'm at a loss for words Shocked

It's a shame to see that even after a passionate outcry from a community that seems to care alot about their game, that the developer doesn't not even bother to respond to topic which obviously alot of people have vested interest in.

An unfortunate display from CCP's side, a true shame that a wonderful game is tainted by a lack of community relations from the developers side.
Weston Doshu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2014-09-28 08:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Weston Doshu
If you can't control your titan you should get relieved of it. Next up everyones gonna store en in a small pos because you can't lock it.

Unban the man ccp. You won't lose face anyways, there isnt any left.

Edit:

What happens if a fleet member bumps a titan before bridging. Same thing if you ask me so ban them as well?
Deucaliona
Penumbra Institute
#110 - 2014-09-28 15:00:28 UTC
I'm a little disappointed to come back to this thread and not see a response yet -.- It has been 8 days. I thought there might be a 'working on this issue' or some kind of feedback that maybe this situation is getting a second look. Or a response shutting this down and saying it is not getting another look.

I don't think in any way that the ban is going to deter someone from attempting this again if the situation presented itself because still no one knows what the rules are. Please respond.

Respectfully,
Deuc
Tirelion
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#111 - 2014-09-28 17:12:48 UTC
This is going to sound like a broken record, but I am not going to stop until something is done. CCP please, it isn't funny, it isn't a joke. You are literally spitting in the face of every lowsec alliance, corp, and pilot and showing us that we are all worthless to you. We are your customers. We pay subscription fees. We need you to actually look at and respond to this in a serious and meaningful manner. According to the policy that you yourself laid out, Aglon should not be banned. It makes me question whether or not I want to continue giving you my money. Thus far you have been detestable, both in your lack of clarification and your lack of response and attention. CCP, you must realize the damage that you are causing here, please, please fix this.
Jazz Caden
Convicts and Savages
#112 - 2014-09-28 18:09:40 UTC
Tirelion wrote:
This is going to sound like a broken record, but I am not going to stop until something is done. CCP please, it isn't funny, it isn't a joke. You are literally spitting in the face of every lowsec alliance, corp, and pilot and showing us that we are all worthless to you. We are your customers. We pay subscription fees. We need you to actually look at and respond to this in a serious and meaningful manner. According to the policy that you yourself laid out, Aglon should not be banned. It makes me question whether or not I want to continue giving you my money. Thus far you have been detestable, both in your lack of clarification and your lack of response and attention. CCP, you must realize the damage that you are causing here, please, please fix this.


Yep... pretty much this^
Demeter Corinth
Sanctuary of Shadows
Dock Workers
#113 - 2014-09-28 21:39:25 UTC
CCP,

This decision you made to permaban Aglon is based on flawed logic. What you deem as an exploit is in fact a spatial mechanic that your game allows for. Your coding/programming allows for ships to be 'bumped' which extend past the safety of a POS shield. If a pilot doesn't want to be bumped, all he/she has to do is 'not' exit the POS shield. Pretty straight forward.

Your ban hammer is misplaced and is a terrible precedent to set for the game at large.

I am not a political animal, I don't hang around the forums. This is by choice. So in the two years I have played this game, if I do not know something is an exploit, would you ban me if I did it? If all I did was bump a ship that is bumpable because your coding is flawed? Effectively that's what you have done. You have banned someone for doing something the game allows by its nature. If you don't want people bumping ships outside of a POS shield, then put code into the game that prevents it.

Instead, you made Aglon your programmers' scapegoat. Rather than have your own staff held accountable to fix the real issue, you blame the players for doing what the game allows in its current state.

You have also changed the face of POS warfare with this decision. People will be afraid to bump ships that 'are' lockable, which IS a legal mechanic per your recent statements, because maybe at the instant the bump occurs, the ship is now far enough back inside the shield that it is no longer lockable. Is that ban worthy?

What if enterprising corps put a fleet of capitals on the POS edge, half lockable, half not, but able to pop out on a moment's notice. If you bump the lockable ones, the unlockable ones get bumped too. Is that ban worthy?

Rather than have your players' creativity stymied, fix your frigging code. Then no one (not you, not the players) has to worry about it. And for goodness sake, unban Aglon. He should not be held accountable because of the game's inherent programming flaws. If you want to reimburse the Titan, sure whatevs. But the permaban is unreasonable, not warranted, and masks the real underlying issue.

-D
Valkin Mordirc
#114 - 2014-09-29 11:43:24 UTC
No offence to ccp, this reminds me of a joke I heard a while back.


How many Dev's does it take to fix a toaster?


One to say it not broken, one to say it is broken and they will fix it soon, one to work on developing an action plan to fix the toaster. One to yell at the other devs for not getting the action plan together fast enough, one to actually fix the toaster, one to write a release about the fixed toaster, and one to actually release the fixed toaster into the game.


Then all the CCP Devs gather round and wonder how the players managed to make the toaster turn on a light bulb.


Only in this case, one player turning on the light bulb gets permabanned, as the rest tentatively turn the lights on and off.



CCP needs to respond to this, they NEED to unban the player in question. And most of all if this is an Exploit, they need to make an official statement about it, and fix THEIR mistake.
#DeleteTheWeak
Anabaric
The Grumpy Bastards
#115 - 2014-09-29 12:17:15 UTC
@CCP, You really need to make an open clarification about this issue.

There is still no official statement about bumping a ship that is partiality outside of the POS shields.

We all accept that deliberately exploiting the server mechanics to get a ship inside of the forcefield is an exploit, either by bridging/jumping a large amount of ships to a cyno lit directly on the target POS's forcefield, or by using an absurdly fast ship to penetrate the POS field prior to the server tick throwing it out.

Everyone agree's that these are exploits and should now deserve warnings/bans.


However that is not the issue on the table, the issue comes from the tactic of bumping a ship which for whatever reason is not entirely inside the POS forcefields. Various situations like this occur on a daily basis, without clear guidance we all risk crossing an invisible line that doesn't seem static from what has been suggested previously in the loose explanations of DEV/GM staff.

If a ship/titan or otherwise is partially out of the shield but unlockable I can still interact with it's hull by hitting it with another ship. If I bump the ship far enough out of the shield so that I can lock, fire, board & steal is that classed as an exploit?

We can't use the "un-interactable" test as it's possible to use (interact) a titan bridge from well outside of a POS field whilst the titan itself is "safe" inside. It is also still clear from other threads (mining bumping) that normal bump tackle/bumping is an acceptable policy elsewhere within the EVE universe, so is it now unacceptable in terms of POS mechanics?

The ban itself isn't the issue now, the issue is clarification of the rules. Can you (CCP) explain the rules so we can learn NOT to break them by using a mechanic that is known to be perfectly acceptable elsewhere within the game.

The rest of us would like to learn from the transgression, rather than get caught out and banned by what is now an extremely gray area.

Community Manager www.Battleclinic.com @battleclinic Loadouts + Killboards + Forums Twitter @anabaric_eve www.the-bastards.net Recruitment: OPEN

Targanoth
Soul Takers
Pen Is Out
#116 - 2014-09-29 15:31:16 UTC
CCP your lack of action on this post speaks loudly to many players. People have invested many years and dollars into this game myself included. Does each player now need to be worry about set of changing rules? Shall there be a daily post of what is and is not acceptable that day?

This kind of attitude to the smaller low sec community is disconcerting to me. In the grand picture we are just a small part of the picture of eve, not even worth taking some time away from your day to day tasks. It angers me that you will not even acknowledge our voice. We are the little kid throwing a temper tantrum at the mall in your eyes. Just ignore him and he will calm down the parents say.

Why should I continue to invest time and money if the scenario comes up I am going to be guilty until proven innocent.

#Freeaglon

No captain can do very wrong if he places his ship alongside that of an Enemy

Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#117 - 2014-09-29 17:56:37 UTC
I'm quickly running out of the patience required to keep pouring money into a game where I may be arbitrarily banned for undefined reasons.

This is impacting our alliances playstyle, and forcing us to second guess any engagements that occur in or around the edge of a POS shield, which is a sizeable part of our content.

The lowsec community is requesting a response from CCP on this thread and it's subject matter. This issue needs to be fully clarified.

#freeaglon
Arth Lawing
Penumbra Institute
#118 - 2014-09-29 18:19:19 UTC
Ships that come out of stations are unlockable and yet bumpable, as are ships that land just outside of docking range and have their warp-in immunity before they move. Titans are big ships, if someone stupid leaves a large amount of it outside a shield then its very bumpable, lockable or not.
This ban and reimbursement is a massive steaming pile and both should be reversed.
From the past decade lack of any word from CCP usually means they know they did something stupid and are trying to think of a way out of it by doing something else stupid.
Jazz Caden
Convicts and Savages
#119 - 2014-09-29 18:59:48 UTC
And so another day passes, as the alliances and coalitions of nullsec continue to play the game without a care. We here in lowsec continue to stand up for each other and wonder if we will be banned for what used to be one of the most enjoyable and fulfilling endeavours a solo lowsec pilot could embark upon.

#FreeAlgon
Foxstar Damaskeenus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2014-09-30 00:12:09 UTC
I wonder when/if we will hear anything and if Aglon will get his account back.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath