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A "Great" return to EVE Online

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Raiz Nhell
PeregrineXII
#41 - 2014-09-16 04:59:42 UTC
Glathull wrote:


....selling "Socket Openers" for a billion isk...




CCP!!!! Make this happen...

I WANT A SOCKET OPENER FOR CHRISTMAS!!!

There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-09-16 05:02:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Atik Reptol wrote:


your insults still dont negate the point that this problem doesnt exist with anything apart from EVE,


You haven't proven that, and you called me a fanboy, so pucker up buttercup, if you can dish it out you can take it. I think I was quite restrained in my response but, let's move on like mature adults, shall we?

I posted how I solved it on the first page. You seem to have skipped past it. I was trying to help. Judging by what other's have been saying about latency sensitivity, it makes sense that going from wi-fi to ethernet would fix it, if you're having the problem on wifi.

For another thing, your thread probably belongs here, not on GD. There are a few other threads there discussing your problem that, had the IT professional thought to use the search feature on the forums, would probably have already found. 90% of IT problem solving comes from Googling the problem. But of course, you already know this, you're a professional.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#43 - 2014-09-16 05:07:22 UTC
Atik Reptol wrote:


If its a latency spike then how does one account get socket closed and the other doesnt sometimes and other times both, thats a pretty strong indicator its not a local error, nor does it explain the fact the website doesnt work straight after a socket error


If it's all CCP's fault all the time and has nothing to do with anything else, how come both your clients' sockets don't always close? After all, if EvE is broken, it should be broken for both your clients, right? Or is EvE doing something magical where it's both completely broken for you and also completely not broken for you at the same time?

That scenario you just presented is the opposite of an indicator that the problem isn't local. Additionally, the game client also has very little to do with the website. They are on different server clusters with different code doing different things. Everything about them is different.

Honestly, if that's your level of IT knowledge, you should offer your boss a refund for your last 15 years of salary.

Again, EvE works just fine for the vast majority of the people a vast majority of the time. Sometimes there are major outages. Most of the time there are not. You are part of a very small number of people experiencing issues. Do the IT math there. The problem is most likely on your end.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-09-16 05:08:03 UTC
Glathull wrote:
Atik Reptol wrote:


If its a latency spike then how does one account get socket closed and the other doesnt sometimes and other times both, thats a pretty strong indicator its not a local error, nor does it explain the fact the website doesnt work straight after a socket error


If it's all CCP's fault all the time and has nothing to do with anything else, how come both your clients' sockets don't always close? After all, if EvE is broken, it should be broken for both your clients, right? Or is EvE doing something magical where it's both completely broken for you and also completely not broken for you at the same time?

That scenario you just presented is the opposite of an indicator that the problem isn't local. Additionally, the game client also has very little to do with the website. They are on different server clusters with different code doing different things. Everything about them is different.

Honestly, if that's your level of IT knowledge, you should offer your boss a refund for your last 15 years of salary.

Again, EvE works just fine for the vast majority of the people a vast majority of the time. Sometimes there are major outages. Most of the time there are not. You are part of a very small number of people experiencing issues. Do the IT math there. The problem is most likely on your end.


Additionally, if it's on CCP's end, on a single server, why doesn't it throw everyone off when you drop?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-09-16 05:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
Remiel, I can confirm half a dozen players I know who have the same issue. None of us have any problems connecting to anything else. When we get a D/C, nothing else we are running gets the D/C. Oh, and we all D/C at the same time. Never separately.

That is not to mention all the players who have made posts about this over the past few weeks.

Sorry but you are wrong on this one my friend. There seems to be a problem - perhaps NA specific - in this regard.

Hey guys.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-09-16 05:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Steppa Musana wrote:
Remiel, I can confirm half a dozen players I know who have the same issue. None of us have any problems connecting to anything else. When we get a D/C, nothing else we are running gets the D/C. Oh, and we all D/C at the same time. Never separately.

That is not to mention all the players who have made posts about this over the past few weeks.

Sorry but you are wrong on this one my friend. There seems to be a problem - perhaps NA specific - in this regard.


Then it's one I'm just not having. Only time I ever get dropped is when the whole server gets dropped, or when my internet goes down. EVER. I haven't been dropped off EVE since early 2013 except under those two circumstances.

That tells me it's localised. Maybe an ISP thing, maybe an infrastructure thing, idk, but it doesn't give me a strong indication of fault at CCP's end at all.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Atik Reptol
Black Canyon
#47 - 2014-09-16 05:12:53 UTC
If everything else works fine all the time and eve disconnects 4 times in 3 hours i would say thats pretty good proof, secondly your solution was irrelevant for me, i wouldn't ever game on wireless.

Thirdly it was never intended to be a techie post about sockets, it was a post about how my return to EVE was disheartened by something which i have no control over and is, despite the protestations of some ppl, related to the quality of the EVE product.
Lady Areola Fappington
#48 - 2014-09-16 05:13:39 UTC
As it's been explained to me a few times, the vast majority of socket closed errors come from an ISP assigning the EVE data stream a really low priority when moving through the network. It's called packetshaping, and pretty much all ISPs do it nowdays.

EVE is kind of touchy about getting packets on-time and in the right order, and when it doesn't, you get a socket error. It's also why you can get a socket error on one client, while the second client is OK. Client 1's data stream drops below the "magic number" for EVE tolerance and dies, while stream 2 is still just above the line and lives.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#49 - 2014-09-16 05:16:14 UTC
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-09-16 05:16:42 UTC
Atik Reptol wrote:
If everything else works fine all the time and eve disconnects 4 times in 3 hours i would say thats pretty good proof, secondly your solution was irrelevant for me, i wouldn't ever game on wireless.

Thirdly it was never intended to be a techie post about sockets, it was a post about how my return to EVE was disheartened by something which i have no control over and is, despite the protestations of some ppl, related to the quality of the EVE product.


I remember once I was having trouble connecting to Xbox Live. All my mates in the US could connect just fine, and my Australian mates as well. I, too, bitched on the forums. Until someone pointed out to me that my ISP at the time was terribad, and 100% to blame.

You still haven't proven how it's related to the quality of the EVE product. For all I know, someone's digging something in your neighbourhood and stirring up cables. Good luck with that.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Atik Reptol
Black Canyon
#51 - 2014-09-16 05:18:00 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
As it's been explained to me a few times, the vast majority of socket closed errors come from an ISP assigning the EVE data stream a really low priority when moving through the network. It's called packetshaping, and pretty much all ISPs do it nowdays.

EVE is kind of touchy about getting packets on-time and in the right order, and when it doesn't, you get a socket error. It's also why you can get a socket error on one client, while the second client is OK. Client 1's data stream drops below the "magic number" for EVE tolerance and dies, while stream 2 is still just above the line and lives.


Sounds plausible, if this is true and its standard ISP practice, then surely CCP knows this and should adjust accordingly, no other games have this issue, and if this is true shouldn't CCP have some "you may get randomly disconnected for no reason that you can control and you just have to live with it" warning before i give them money ?
Atik Reptol
Black Canyon
#52 - 2014-09-16 05:20:37 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Atik Reptol wrote:
If everything else works fine all the time and eve disconnects 4 times in 3 hours i would say thats pretty good proof, secondly your solution was irrelevant for me, i wouldn't ever game on wireless.

Thirdly it was never intended to be a techie post about sockets, it was a post about how my return to EVE was disheartened by something which i have no control over and is, despite the protestations of some ppl, related to the quality of the EVE product.


I remember once I was having trouble connecting to Xbox Live. All my mates in the US could connect just fine, and my Australian mates as well. I, too, bitched on the forums. Until someone pointed out to me that my ISP at the time was terribad, and 100% to blame.

You still haven't proven how it's related to the quality of the EVE product. For all I know, someone's digging something in your neighbourhood and stirring up cables. Good luck with that.


so my <10ms pings and 8mb/s constant download speed dont count as proof, also the ping traces that show the connection being lost 2-3 hops upstream when i dont get packet loss on any other of the 10 or so connections i tried ?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-09-16 05:22:23 UTC
Atik Reptol wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
As it's been explained to me a few times, the vast majority of socket closed errors come from an ISP assigning the EVE data stream a really low priority when moving through the network. It's called packetshaping, and pretty much all ISPs do it nowdays.

EVE is kind of touchy about getting packets on-time and in the right order, and when it doesn't, you get a socket error. It's also why you can get a socket error on one client, while the second client is OK. Client 1's data stream drops below the "magic number" for EVE tolerance and dies, while stream 2 is still just above the line and lives.


Sounds plausible, if this is true and its standard ISP practice, then surely CCP knows this and should adjust accordingly, no other games have this issue, and if this is true shouldn't CCP have some "you may get randomly disconnected for no reason that you can control and you just have to live with it" warning before i give them money ?


EULA wrote:

No Warranties

The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.

CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.

While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Atik Reptol
Black Canyon
#54 - 2014-09-16 05:23:13 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Atik Reptol wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
As it's been explained to me a few times, the vast majority of socket closed errors come from an ISP assigning the EVE data stream a really low priority when moving through the network. It's called packetshaping, and pretty much all ISPs do it nowdays.

EVE is kind of touchy about getting packets on-time and in the right order, and when it doesn't, you get a socket error. It's also why you can get a socket error on one client, while the second client is OK. Client 1's data stream drops below the "magic number" for EVE tolerance and dies, while stream 2 is still just above the line and lives.


Sounds plausible, if this is true and its standard ISP practice, then surely CCP knows this and should adjust accordingly, no other games have this issue, and if this is true shouldn't CCP have some "you may get randomly disconnected for no reason that you can control and you just have to live with it" warning before i give them money ?


No Warranties

The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.

CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.

While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.


Thats nice, just cuz its legal does that really make it right ?
Lady Areola Fappington
#55 - 2014-09-16 05:23:41 UTC
Atik Reptol wrote:


Sounds plausible, if this is true and its standard ISP practice, then surely CCP knows this and should adjust accordingly, no other games have this issue, and if this is true shouldn't CCP have some "you may get randomly disconnected for no reason that you can control and you just have to live with it" warning before i give them money ?


It's a collision of technology in the end. Remember, EVE is a 10+ year old game, and things like packetshaping, WiFi, and such really weren't in the public domain like they are now. You end up trying to work around things the best you can with what you got, and it becomes a heartache.


If anything, you can try calling your ISP, giving them the info on EVE's data "footprint", and letting them fix it. I got hit by the same bug after the last big expansion. Called my ISP, got in touch with an actual tech, gave him the port numbers, and haven't had a problem yet.

I'm sure if CCP COULD code around it, they would. It's just one of those things.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-09-16 05:25:00 UTC
Atik Reptol wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Atik Reptol wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
As it's been explained to me a few times, the vast majority of socket closed errors come from an ISP assigning the EVE data stream a really low priority when moving through the network. It's called packetshaping, and pretty much all ISPs do it nowdays.

EVE is kind of touchy about getting packets on-time and in the right order, and when it doesn't, you get a socket error. It's also why you can get a socket error on one client, while the second client is OK. Client 1's data stream drops below the "magic number" for EVE tolerance and dies, while stream 2 is still just above the line and lives.


Sounds plausible, if this is true and its standard ISP practice, then surely CCP knows this and should adjust accordingly, no other games have this issue, and if this is true shouldn't CCP have some "you may get randomly disconnected for no reason that you can control and you just have to live with it" warning before i give them money ?


No Warranties

The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.

CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.

While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.


Thats nice, just cuz its legal does that really make it right ?


Hey, you were the one saying they should have told you first. They did. It's not their fault you didn't listen.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Atik Reptol
Black Canyon
#57 - 2014-09-16 05:28:33 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Atik Reptol wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Atik Reptol wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
As it's been explained to me a few times, the vast majority of socket closed errors come from an ISP assigning the EVE data stream a really low priority when moving through the network. It's called packetshaping, and pretty much all ISPs do it nowdays.

EVE is kind of touchy about getting packets on-time and in the right order, and when it doesn't, you get a socket error. It's also why you can get a socket error on one client, while the second client is OK. Client 1's data stream drops below the "magic number" for EVE tolerance and dies, while stream 2 is still just above the line and lives.


Sounds plausible, if this is true and its standard ISP practice, then surely CCP knows this and should adjust accordingly, no other games have this issue, and if this is true shouldn't CCP have some "you may get randomly disconnected for no reason that you can control and you just have to live with it" warning before i give them money ?


No Warranties

The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.

CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.

While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.


Thats nice, just cuz its legal does that really make it right ?


Hey, you were the one saying they should have told you first. They did. It's not their fault you didn't listen.


But last page you were saying theres nothing wrong with EVE and it must be my connection or my own stupidity, and now its still my fault cuz its not my fault but they already told me if it isnt my fault its tough **** anyways ?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-09-16 05:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Atik Reptol wrote:


But last page you were saying theres nothing wrong with EVE and it must be my connection or my own stupidity, and now its still my fault cuz its not my fault but they already told me if it isnt my fault its tough **** anyways ?


Perhaps if you were to stop getting so defensive about people asking you questions about the possibility of the fault being on your end, which is entirely different to it being your 'fault', you'd realise that whose fault it is doesn't matter. Unless someone's done this to you intentionally, the fault is in an inanimate object or otherwise non-sentient that can't face consequences for messing with your EVE time, and is probably entirely indiscriminatory. And unless you solve it, it'll probably keep happening.

If you've petitioned it, and CCP say they can't find an issue, then by the process of elimination, you are closer to finding your solution.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Torneach Structor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-09-16 05:39:30 UTC
Nuh-uh.

You've got it all wrong.

Whose fault is it?

San Andreas' Fault.
Atik Reptol
Black Canyon
#60 - 2014-09-16 05:41:42 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Atik Reptol wrote:


But last page you were saying theres nothing wrong with EVE and it must be my connection or my own stupidity, and now its still my fault cuz its not my fault but they already told me if it isnt my fault its tough **** anyways ?


Perhaps if you were to stop getting so defensive about people asking you questions about the possibility of the fault being on your end, which is entirely different to it being your 'fault', you'd realise that whose fault it is doesn't matter. Unless someone's done this to you intentionally, the fault is in an inanimate object or otherwise non-sentient that can't face consequences for messing with your EVE time, and is probably entirely indiscriminatory. And unless you solve it, it'll probably keep happening.

If you've petitioned it, and CCP say they can't find an issue, then by the process of elimination, you are closer to finding your solution.


Well plenty of other ppl have posted about the fault in the last few weeks/months, and noone seems to care enough/be smart enough to have a definitive answer, i suspect its probably the whole packetshaping thing, but to me this signifies a weakness in CCP's code and therefore actually makes it their fault, wether its a big enough problem for them to care about significantly, or wether its even fixable in itself without a huge rewrite and therefore in reality unfixable is now besides the point, if it continues to happen i'll just play something else instead.

The point of this post was simply to express my dissapointment that my return to EVE which i was looking forward to was marred by a crappy error that apparently i cant avoid, but all it has really done is to remind me why i usually never bother with forums in the first place.