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will we ever get an expansion that....

Author
chiq Mech
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-09-14 20:37:21 UTC
Ok then, another question - based upon someone pointing out that expansions are free (assuming you mean that we don't actually pay a one-off fee for a big expansions like some other mmos):

Do you prefer the current method - pay monthly/plex to receive tweaks and minor updates?

or

Who wouldn't mind paying £40 or so once a year for a fullscale "proper" expansion?

and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really.

What i don't mean is a new pvp ship with some retro-actively-fitted lore and new skins for suns.

Personally, I'd be happy to pay the extra once a year
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#42 - 2014-09-14 20:48:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
I'd rather a functional game thanks.

Edit: btw that content you're looking for, you're it .
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#43 - 2014-09-14 21:08:02 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I can't think of any promo vid for a game that shows actual in game footage, off hand.
Now, I'm pretty sleepy because I just woke up, but I'm also pretty sure you linked just such a video for EVE in your next paragraph. EVE actually has several, almost all from the early days.

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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#44 - 2014-09-14 21:09:18 UTC
chiq Mech wrote:
Who wouldn't mind paying £40 or so once a year for a fullscale "proper" expansion?
I sure wouldn't. If it was at all feasible as a payment model I mean.

chiq Mech wrote:
and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really.
Oh. I changed my mind.

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#45 - 2014-09-14 21:12:23 UTC
You might consider that all those "minor additions" you've received in the last few expansions (which are not so minor by the way) are things you'd still be waiting on if the old 6 month development cycle were in place.

I'll take the smaller things as they become ready, bigger things being released when they are ready (and not needed to be delayed for several months if they miss the expansion deadline by a week or two), and I'll keep in mind that this release cycle makes it much more likely that what is released will not only be fresh code (not sitting idle for a few months) but far more likely to be iterated on in a timely fashion.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#46 - 2014-09-14 21:26:09 UTC
chiq Mech wrote:

and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really.

The problem is you are thinking theme park MMO's. Who push out a whole bunch of re-skinned content (The boars are now blue and see through, it's 'new') that invalidates all previous expansions and creates a new grind to the new level cap.

EVE doesn't invalidate content. So most MMO's their actual content is only what is in the latest expansion, everything else is a grind to get there. EVE keeps all old content relevant, so these little 'tweaks' as you put it are actually creating more content than entire theme park expansions, because they make a bunch of old content more relevant in the overall meta of the game.
Solecist Project
#47 - 2014-09-14 21:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
chiq Mech wrote:

and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really.

The problem is you are thinking theme park MMO's. Who push out a whole bunch of re-skinned content (The boars are now blue and see through, it's 'new') that invalidates all previous expansions and creates a new grind to the new level cap.

EVE doesn't invalidate content. So most MMO's their actual content is only what is in the latest expansion, everything else is a grind to get there. EVE keeps all old content relevant, so these little 'tweaks' as you put it are actually creating more content than entire theme park expansions, because they make a bunch of old content more relevant in the overall meta of the game.

More active content for people who like to immerse themselves deeper into a universe ...
... would actually be a good thing ...
... but I have no idea how to properly apply this to EVE.

Think Faction Warfare. That's a branch for these people,
but the meaninglessness is seriously wasted potential.

CCP SoundWave was a visionary regarding this.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#48 - 2014-09-14 21:48:47 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
chiq Mech wrote:

and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really.

The problem is you are thinking theme park MMO's. Who push out a whole bunch of re-skinned content (The boars are now blue and see through, it's 'new') that invalidates all previous expansions and creates a new grind to the new level cap.

EVE doesn't invalidate content. So most MMO's their actual content is only what is in the latest expansion, everything else is a grind to get there. EVE keeps all old content relevant, so these little 'tweaks' as you put it are actually creating more content than entire theme park expansions, because they make a bunch of old content more relevant in the overall meta of the game.

More active content for people who like to immerse themselves deeper into a universe ...
... would actually be a good thing ...
... but I have no idea how to properly apply this to EVE.

Think Faction Warfare. That's a branch for these people,
but the meaninglessness is seriously wasted potential.

CCP SoundWave was a visionary regarding this.

More interesting,driven community minded people willing to heard cats would achieve that,
James (whatever, code guy, you know who I'm on about) comes to mind.
A counter culture to code that wasn't based on hate would be perfect .
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#49 - 2014-09-14 21:53:07 UTC
I remember one mission for security rating above 5.0 that was camped by some players 24/7 for the shiny modules. CCP ultimately get rid of it, but they did not remove agent. I believe every static content would ultimately meet this end. New people trying to do it, would crush on the wall of griefers, thieves and gankers, us, EVE players that is.

So no static content for ever.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#50 - 2014-09-14 21:54:18 UTC
Problem is Code is visibly based on hate.
I've suggested some things that create more positive cultures at points, like missions/anomalies with multiple optional objectives that one person can't do all of them at once. So there is more point to working together than just gate camps and blobbing. WH's do very well for that, as do Incursions (Though Low needs the same cap raise as null is getting I think, to help them out there). But a lot of EVE's PvE content which is what most peoples bread & butter income is based on is all about solo. Because teaming up actually looses efficiency in nearly every case.

Anyway, that's getting off topic, like I said above. A small tweak to things (for example, 'Anchorable bubbles now have a life time of one week'. Seems tiny on the face of it.) will have huge shifts in the meta of EVE, and create immense gameplay.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-09-14 22:08:25 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
chiq Mech wrote:
Ah yes, see what you mean about Incarna.

Not sure what you mean about stealth buff.

and don't get me wrong, I understand the need for tweaking and I do like the new visuals.

But surely tweaking should be running in the background - maybe employ a couple of janitors to press a few buttons to make stations look more shiny?



I agree - would like to see a lot more new content, not just visual tweaks.


If it's well thought out content, otherwise it can make things worse.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#52 - 2014-09-14 22:44:54 UTC
*Flashes his 10 year vet status badge+ (seriously CCP i would pay a plex or two to have an official one..)

I'm going to make a few points. And yes i will repeat what others have said.

1) Expansions are dead. Get that in your head, there are nor more expansions. EvE has gone to a release cycle, more like patches. These are not Expansions, merely updates tot he game. New stuff will be added, but not as an expansion. Once you get that in your head, then its very easy to understand the new release model. so once again, there are no more expansions.

2) I have said this a few times, and i will say it again. EVE's old model sucked. Before incarnia, this is how it went, and you can seriously read about this stuff in old dev blogs. I will take two features and give you an example of what i mean:

CCP: Hey guys in out next expansion Revelations 1 we are going to change the current escrow system into a new and exciting more flexible contract system. You can use this system to buy and sell items like normal, you can also use this system as a CEO to do loan programs to your members. so if say someone wants a barge, you can give them a barge and they will have to use it to mine x amount, once they do that, it will be theirs. We are also going to give the alliances the ability to form treaties. So if say BoB is in Delv and Quirious they can form a treaties with FiX so that while bob and fix are in qurious they are blue, but if FiX goes into delv they become red. We will also look into new dynamic ways of utilize the bounty system. And guy this will be the first setup, we will go over this the next few expansions and make it truly awesome, so wait for that to come out in the next expansion in 6 weeks!"

one week later:

CCP: Sorry guys, we had to cut the bounty system from contracts, its just not going to work, but don;t worry we will address this at a later time.

another week.

CCP: Yea you know that loan program thing? Yea we had to cut and changed that, its now an open contract. It doesn;t quite work how we said it will but we will address it later.

three more weeks (one week till release)

CCP: Some of you are noticing the treaty system was not on sisi, yea we had to cut that. The corp and alliance code was to complex for us to do what we wanted. So we are going to put that on hold and will work on it over the next few months. Don;t worry guys, corp and alliance rehash is coming soon(tm)...

Rev 1 launches

CCP: ok guys let me introduce you to heat and all the cool stuff its going to do... whats that? No corp and alliances has to wait... i am talking about heat now...

And this example:

CCP: Hey guys, let me tell you about the cool mining features coming in Exodus. We are making it so corps can form alliances and because of that we are going to give these alliances more tools to gather resources. So we are introducing these new type of mining ships called a mining barge. We are also going to enable moon mining with pos! And we are thinking of adding a capital miner, but that will be way later. Also these new system will replace belts, we are making system wide asteroid belts, they will be huge with vast amounts of ore, and the chance to maybe get some moon ore and other special ore as well. I n addition we are going to introduce comet mining as an exciting update to the mining system. Look for all this in Nov 2004!

A few weeks later

CCP: Yea comet mining is out.. and we had to tweek the barges.

Nother few weeks

CCP: yea system wide belts are out, but don;t worry we will do something with mining in the future.


Now then. The new system, of small when its done features i think is a hell of a lot better. I think the issue is they need to finish the repairs of old systems before they add in new stuff. Think of it as trying to build a second story on a house that has rotting and falling walls and a broken foundation. You have to do repairs before you can upgrade. Thats what ccp is doing. Repairing.

3) To all the idiots stating "well if ccp had just kept dumping money into eve..." thats like telling Ford Hey henry, the model a is great, everyone loves it, you don;t nee dot make the model t or any other future cars, just keep working on that model a and you will do fine.

It doesn't; work that way. CCP is a software company. As such they need to add more products or in the long run they will die. So they will take risk, some will succeed, some won;t. As long as they balance there money and resources, then who cares. Eve is here, i can play it, and if other stuff come out that makes the experence better, or a whole new ip comes that makes ccp more money, then its a win win. and if they flounder, then oh well. I'm here till the end either way, i just hope its a long time away.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#53 - 2014-09-14 22:50:46 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
I remember one mission for security rating above 5.0 that was camped by some players 24/7 for the shiny modules. CCP ultimately get rid of it, but they did not remove agent. I believe every static content would ultimately meet this end. New people trying to do it, would crush on the wall of griefers, thieves and gankers, us, EVE players that is.

So no static content for ever.



These were the DED beacons, they unhooked them and made them move around because of farming, and people were whining they could never get any of the shiney. So they became unhooked and move around.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
RONA Directorate
#54 - 2014-09-14 23:04:15 UTC
Let CCP fix all the minor issues that everyone has complained about since 2003 first then lets get some new content which will inevitably break the game again.


Remember the expansion that broke the auto pilot and all freighters went through decon?

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#55 - 2014-09-14 23:24:55 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Let CCP fix all the minor issues that everyone has complained about since 2003 first then lets get some new content which will inevitably break the game again.


Remember the expansion that broke the auto pilot and all freighters went through decon?



lol i remember that

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Vyl Vit
#56 - 2014-09-15 00:20:09 UTC
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The map is big enough, so don't look for any new "zones".
I don't think they'll be introducing "mounts" any time soon, either. But, don't quote me.
Maybe if we had some nice capes with our logos on them...yeah...this Christmas.

EVE's Cloaky Cloak Expansion.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Spookyjay
Brain Farmers Inc
#57 - 2014-09-15 00:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Spookyjay
EVE needs to work in a kinda little but often way for balancing and then every 3 months or so hit a big ish addition.
ignoring balancing and assuming that balancing is done for these the next thing i want to see are:

-PIrate faction burner missions.
-t2 and faction capitals. (Give people something high end to aim for in the same build cost area as jump freighters.
-Then advanced and super structures for alliances to build. (once sov and pos reworked) so things like gate defenses and special stations where you can dock supers.
- player owned gates. player owned pockets of space where you can actually like have npc polices forces for your faction and maybe even concord recognition if you get it high/secure enough. (but the ability to lose both via war with other alliances.
- more incursion like events where advanced npc do other stuff like attack player space or structures. or even maybe empire stations and can destroy or incap them if not defeated.

then maybe when we have more advances NPC and the ability to use them start pulling aliens/jove npc in with very limited reward from them.
basically i think eve had a good 10 years left in it. maybe 15 if they can push the AI and Interactivity with the world. Actually make it feel alive.


My big issues with eve atm besides small bugs are these 3:
1. The game-play is stale at endgame. blob/camp/gank. jump/warp/jump. There are few variables. And pvp plays nothing like the battles of the trailers or great sci-fi. we all just primary target and move on. There is no brawl.

2. the world is kinda lifeless. EVE is huge but at the same time tiny. Little happens in the space around us, No asteroids to avoid. No solar flares scrambling lock ranges. No black holes sucking in ships to close to them. And no tactics that exploit these. IE be awesome to use a black hole and my ship mass to lure an opponent into its grasp knowing my ship is faster and lighter and can escape from closer to the event horizon.

3. No one will embrace change. I've noticed in the last few years many players reacting worse and worse to changes that need to happen because they are so comfy with the broken system. And the lack of ccp being willing to trial run big changes in any siginificant way. IE via a Armageddon day style tq trial or significant sisi tests. means nothing really significant happens. its like a democracy where because no one person can make a call nothing happens. locked in stale mate not willing to upset any one party.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#58 - 2014-09-15 00:50:55 UTC
One thing that will help the situation you just described are the development of tools that will allow developers to more easily create new content.

This new release cycle actually promotes time being spent on back end (yet vital) work like this, as the team working on those tools doesn't have to worry about meeting a specific deadline while also producing something shiny for the players at the same time.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2014-09-15 01:43:16 UTC
chiq Mech wrote:
....is an expansion?

Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new and I don't know anything about the complexities of programming. I've just read the Oceanus dev blog and apart from a few minor adjustments I can't really see anything that justifies the word "expansion". Imagine a fantasy writer releasing the next installment of a series of stories and it only being a page long. Or perhaps a popular tv show and the long-awaited new series being 1 episode, half-an-hour long - with adverts.

I understand that expansions have been broken up into six week releases and that in many ways this is a good thing. But, what can be achieved in 6 weeks if this is going to be a permanent thing?

So the question is - what is the general concensus about forthcoming "expan....cough....patches"? Will we ever get something BIG? Something that knocks you for six and gets you running around the block naked shouting "oh my god, eve is just so freakin awesome I just can't take anymore!"

Or the continuance of minor and forgettable tweaks?


you will notice most of the player base that have been around for a while always refer to them as patches. expansions in eve are something that are rarely done. CCP Seagull is working towards something big, an expansion, that needs a bunch of fixes and smaller additions to the game to be completed before its released. Hopefully it will be done with in the next year or so. until then, I am thankful they are fixing, re-balancing and adding small things.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#60 - 2014-09-15 06:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
DaReaper, I was thinking about this mission for security status: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Security_status#Jeremy_Tacs

Also

Quote:
As such they need to add more products or in the long run they will die.


So I think, but there is clearly the lack of quality management in that company that showeled money into WoD and Dust 514. Because of that I would advise them to stick to the winning side, and trying to upgrade their skills first, or start with something small, that can be build upon. EVE started that way, it was just a rudimentary grid of systems working together, with a lot of potential for expanding.