These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

will we ever get an expansion that....

Author
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-09-14 16:40:11 UTC

Gets stuff for free.


Wants to pick what they get.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#22 - 2014-09-14 16:41:22 UTC
chiq Mech wrote:
Is it possible that one or two unsuccessful expansions have created an atmosphere of "treading lightly" to not repeat said mistakes?
It would be possible if there were only one or two unsucessful expansions. The reality is there were one or two catastrophic expansions, a whole load that added things that needed adjustments (which resulted in later expansions or components of expansions which were just fixes of content in previous expansions) which could thus be considered unsuccessful, and the odd one like Apocrypha that actually delivered.

As for treading lightly, they recently overhauled the core mechanics of industry for the first time since the game launched as far as I know (certainly the first time since 2006), I hear they're doing invention soon, and their current stated plan for the future is to go around to each of the super-nasty super-hard-to-modify core components of the game and rework them all, as well as stuff like module tiericide.

As for the six week release limiting the scope of added content, if you watch/read the relevant videos/blogs you'll find that the point is that the only releases are six-weekly; the dev work doesn't have to fit into six week windows, so they could work on a large 'jesus feature' over a longer time and fit it into one of the releases if they wanted to - they just probably won't because they and we have learned that large monolithic additions to the game don't work out well.

As for whether the release cycles are a good idea, this is a hard one to argue. They've tried pretty much everything else they can do short of not updating the game at all at one extreme, and releasing an offical EVE 2 at the other extreme. The simple fact of the matter is that it has worked out better for the game and the players every time CCP have moved further from large monolithic expansions and closer to working on the existing game systems in smaller more iterative updates. Changing the release cycle to match the more successful development philosophy really is the smart move.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#23 - 2014-09-14 16:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Sibyyl wrote:

Gets stuff for free.


Wants to pick what they get.


Wants more of it too.

Quote:
The reality is there were one or two catastrophic expansions

I would say underdeveloped.
getinmyshipihavecandy
Suspicious Van
#24 - 2014-09-14 16:55:08 UTC
From my point of view it looks as if we'll get small updates, fixes and tiny treats every 6 weeks. Then every few months they'll give us a large feature that has been worked on behind the stage.

I like the new cycle. Gives us small things in between the big things.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-09-14 16:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
getinmyshipihavecandy wrote:
From my point of view it looks as if we'll get small updates, fixes and tiny treats every 6 weeks. Then every few months they'll give us a large feature that has been worked on behind the stage.

I like the new cycle. Gives us small things in between the big things.


You have the best name in the game.

The like is for the name. They don't let us like twice or I'd give you one for the post too.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#26 - 2014-09-14 17:04:34 UTC
I would not mind them working on the foundations of things, like now, to make possible big things later, then they can add hype and it will be a great success. I hope they will make it big someday and they will deliver.
Torneach Structor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-09-14 17:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Torneach Structor
Applying regular MMO expansion logic to EVE just doesn't work.

In a themepark MMO, the developers need to constantly push out new content since they are the only real engine of said content.

In EVE, the developers have to constantly tweak and alter and maybe add some tools that the players themselves use to create content.

So, really, EVE tweaks and minor additions are in many ways equivalent to a regular MMO's expansion cycle, even though they look nothing alike - though this can be chalked up to EVE being nothing like those other games.
Forest Archer
Swamp Panthers
The Wraithguard.
#28 - 2014-09-14 17:08:01 UTC
chiq Mech wrote:
Is it possible that one or two unsuccessful expansions have created an atmosphere of "treading lightly" to not repeat said mistakes? Can this be used as an excuse to keep tweaking rather than inventing? This reminds me of artists/writers who continually tweak the same piece of work to "perfect it" rather than moving on to something new.

So they made a mistake with Incarna....now we have new nebulae, tooltips and adjustments to overview settings. It's as if ccp have gone to the other extreme and dare not introduce big things.

Why would, say for example, opening jovian space and introducing deep lore negatively affect the game?

I've been browsing the new features forum and some of the ideas are amazing - I also notice that many are a few years old and have never been implemented.

I understand your concerns, and I also understand that introducing "little things" has driven a small amount of content.

But perhaps a good idea to take the plunge, say "what the heck" and do something big? Shake things up?


2 things one is that the vets who have been around since the last good major expansion apocrypha know that CCP botched most of them and are not quite ready to jump into another one, we want them but we want them to be done well so when they have it done and ready we'll go for it.
And the second is that the past 2 years CCP is fixing 11 year old issues if you want constant large expansions you are welcome to give CCP large amounts of money to do it, and most players don't care much about lore it's cool background but hardly effects gameplay.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#29 - 2014-09-14 17:08:06 UTC
Bears: OMGCCPTHEGAMEISBROKENFIXITORIMUNSUBBINGMY ELEVETYTWELVETHOUSANDACCOUNTS(thatiplex)

CCP: *overhauls exploration,industry,makes ui sharing a thing and many other quality of life changes*

Bears: OMGCCPWHYTHEHELLAREYOUJUSTFIXINTHEGAMEANDNOTRELEASINGCONTENT!!!!!!

CCP: *collectively contemplates dusting off the longboats*
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#30 - 2014-09-14 17:13:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
While I see the reason CCP is doing it this way, I have to admit I miss the old days when an expansion was something to get excited about. The hype, the speculation, the high quality trailers, the threadnaughts over one rumor or another. Trying to read between the lines when we actually got some info so that we'd have an advantage over our fellow players on launch day.

Good stuff! With a six week cycle, we'll never see anything like that again and I think EVE has lost a little excitement because of it.

Mr Epeen Cool
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#31 - 2014-09-14 17:15:03 UTC
Obunagawe wrote:
I do think the new release cycle is a big mistake.


It's certainly hard to argue with your reasoning. P

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#32 - 2014-09-14 17:17:32 UTC
Better if they make it good than underdeveloped, so I will be happy if they will be able to give us one "big" hyped feature per year, or even less but let it be something good, worth subscribing again. This game needs it, to draw some players back, or new ones.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-09-14 17:47:41 UTC
Some releases will be more juicy than others. Or, put another way... some releases will be "meat and potatoes" while the rest will just be side dishes and "gravy". Cake, even. P

Pull up a chair, dig in, enjoy. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-09-14 17:48:22 UTC

Mr Epeen wrote:
The hype, the speculation, the high quality trailers




I love the trailers as a standalone piece of entertainment.. but I wonder how everyone is OK with these trailers not resembling anything that ends up happening in the game itself..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#35 - 2014-09-14 17:56:59 UTC
You will have to forgive ccp, they are FAR to busy with tournaments and parties around the world to do anything of note since incarna

I do agree that a proper expansion should just be tweaks and fixes, those are called patches but as ccp runs out of things to be expansion worthy they've seem to have taken to naming their monthly patches and calling them expansions to get new players and keep existing ones

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Solecist Project
#36 - 2014-09-14 19:04:38 UTC
Martin Corwin wrote:
Eve doesn't get expansions, it gets releases that cost you nothing. But you should know that, if you read the devblog, right? Roll

Apart from that, Oceanus has plenty of new content for a 6 week iteration IMO: new cloaking effect, new wormhole effects, new wormhole nebulas, new burner missions and a new music piece. Not exactly new, but the beginning of module tiericide will be huge. Shocked

And new clothes, but I fear that something certain is missing.

But who needs clothes anyway........ *cough* ;)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-09-14 19:41:45 UTC
chiq Mech wrote:
Ah yes, see what you mean about Incarna.

Not sure what you mean about stealth buff.

and don't get me wrong, I understand the need for tweaking and I do like the new visuals.

But surely tweaking should be running in the background - maybe employ a couple of janitors to press a few buttons to make stations look more shiny?


They still have big projects being worked on. the difference is, in the past, their release windows were restricted to once every 6 MONTHS, meaning if something got finsihed mere days after a release window, then it would likely be shelved for 5 and a half months to the next expansion. with a 6 week window, they can push out content as its ready. yes, this means ALOT of "fluff" or "tweak" patch-spansions, but roughly every 5-7 months one of those release cycles will see the completion of a major project aswell.

basically, the content they work on is no different than before, they simply are allowing a frequency of releases to put out content as its finished, instead of as its marketed.
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-09-14 19:50:04 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
What we know is, EVE is still improving and growing. For free. That's good enough for me.

The expansions aren't free, they're paid for by subscriptions and by PLEX purchases.

The only MMO I can immediately recall that actually offers free expansions is GW2.
Seneca Auran
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2014-09-14 19:52:15 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
chiq Mech wrote:
...I am relatively new...


Then I suggest you look up Incarna and learn about why doing 'big' additions instead of fixing existing smaller problems is a bad idea.

Also, posting in a stealth 'buff free stuff' thread.


To be fair, the problem with Incarna wasn't the concept, it was their decision to release it with approximately .00001% of what they said it was going be, and then making a series of hilariously terrible decisions in handling the aftermath.

Big additions are fine, just make them, ya know, actually big editions delivering at least most of what was promised.

It would be like, I dunno, wow hyping up The Burning Crusade, then releasing a single new weapon and saying, "Don't worry! Everything else we promised is coming! Probably...piecemeal, over the next decade or so! You can thank us for this awesome expansion now!..wait, why are they angry?"
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#40 - 2014-09-14 20:11:54 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Mr Epeen wrote:
The hype, the speculation, the high quality trailers




I love the trailers as a standalone piece of entertainment.. but I wonder how everyone is OK with these trailers not resembling anything that ends up happening in the game itself..

I think you answered your own question. They are entertainment. Plenty of actual gameplay vids on YouTube. I can't think of any promo vid for a game that shows actual in game footage, off hand. They are eye candy and CCP did some of the best.

Having said that, I will say that my personal favorite was all in game footage. I actually built a new rig just for that one expansion.

Mr Epeen Cool