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"The Operative" - a New Game Mechanic

Author
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-09-14 16:50:31 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Actually, a lot of people accuse miners and mission runners of forgetting they are in an MMO, but that's fine because we can stil interact with such individuals. Still, that's beyond the point.

Your proposal means you can interact with other people while they are not at their computer and have no way of countering you, by playing a minigame.You can counter being ganked by moving to a different system, fitting tank, etc... There is no counter to someone in a different timezone sneaking to a station and playing a minigame.

Would you be ok with those "combat PvPers" being able to destroy your mining barge while you're not logged in? Steal your ore while you're sleeping? Thought so. So no, you won't get any support for this idea here.


EDIT: The only knee jerk reaction here is your own unwillingness to accept criticism to the bad game mechanic you're proposing. Also, geting into null is way easier than you seem to think.; get a T3, fit a nullifier, thank me later.


Or go cheap and get a malediction or a crow with 2 nanos and you're done.
Aivlis Eldelbar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-09-14 16:58:37 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:

Or go cheap and get a malediction or a crow with 2 nanos and you're done.


Except the T3 will still be able to do PVE, which is what OP seems to excel at Lol
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#23 - 2014-09-14 18:33:10 UTC
TLDR
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#24 - 2014-09-15 00:33:35 UTC
Cool story, well written post, and an idea that is interesting.
Siphons have been nerfed so much before being added to the game, that they can't be really used by small groups, not even talking about the API readings that make them visible without even any kind of in-game activity.... So adding more effective siphoning to the game is the way to go....

IMHO, for this concept to work as described, the locking time of POS defenses needs to be significantly improved. Frankly, today, any frigate can warp away from a pos fairly easily especially if they are aligned while still cloaked.
I do think your story exaggerates the risks of being killed by pos defenses after un cloaked near a station, and I am not even talking about the risk of being podded by a POS defense. The pod would be out even before the gun would start locking it.. Maybe have a warp disruption field between 0 and 2500meters of any POS field...

As for finding out about such cloaked ships a few patrols with drones orbiting around 0 outside of the shield would probably easily un cloak such shenanigans, but it would requires actively doing something in-game for the defenders....

If indeed the risk is real then it can certainly be a cool idea...

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-09-15 01:22:32 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Your proposal means you can interact with other people while they are not at their computer and have no way of countering you, by playing a minigame.You can counter being ganked by moving to a different system, fitting tank, etc... There is no counter to someone in a different timezone sneaking to a station and playing a minigame.

Would you be ok with those "combat PvPers" being able to destroy your mining barge while you're not logged in? Steal your ore while you're sleeping? Thought so. So no, you won't get any support for this idea here.

Mobile Siphoning Unit

You were saying?
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2014-09-15 01:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CaiJi Du
chaosgrimm wrote:
TLDR

Medication for ADHD

See, I'm tryng to help Twisted
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-09-15 01:47:17 UTC
Saisin wrote:
Cool story, well written post, and an idea that is interesting.
Siphons have been nerfed so much before being added to the game, that they can't be really used by small groups, not even talking about the API readings that make them visible without even any kind of in-game activity.... So adding more effective siphoning to the game is the way to go....

IMHO, for this concept to work as described, the locking time of POS defenses needs to be significantly improved. Frankly, today, any frigate can warp away from a pos fairly easily especially if they are aligned while still cloaked.
I do think your story exaggerates the risks of being killed by pos defenses after un cloaked near a station, and I am not even talking about the risk of being podded by a POS defense. The pod would be out even before the gun would start locking it.. Maybe have a warp disruption field between 0 and 2500meters of any POS field...

As for finding out about such cloaked ships a few patrols with drones orbiting around 0 outside of the shield would probably easily un cloak such shenanigans, but it would requires actively doing something in-game for the defenders....

If indeed the risk is real then it can certainly be a cool idea...

Thank you for the solid feedback.

Those are certainly issues that would have to be addressed. Frankly, I have never been fired on by these guns, so I had no idea about their response times. It is vital for their to be a genuine danger to the covert operative, as well as limiting what he can do to an 'irritation' level. Judging by the responses of the PvPers here, I think this would certainly serve that purpose at least. :)

While not exactly 'necessary', I'd like to create a logical explanation for why the agent is unusually vulnerable to the guns, and invent a mechanic to fit that. I think it requires little suspension of unbelief to say that a failed attempt at electronic entry results in a feedback into the implant - this could be said to create disorientation in the pilot, disruption to consciousness, or the capsuleer's ability to interface to his ship. Anything that makes sense, and that has the intended result of preventing the pilot from warping out in seconds.

The less that needs to be changed in game, the better. Hopefully, disabling the controls of the ship on the EVE client for a few seconds would not be a major programming event. Turret behavior need not be changed, unless it is perhaps to ensure that they can, in fact, accurately hit a frigate with 0 traversal. The 'disorientation' delay, to keep it interesting, should be randomly variable, possibly ending with just enough time to -try- to warp away, and with an upper limit which ensures the sentry guns get at least one shot at a stationary target.

To make podding possible, a similar delay must be invoked on the pod; explanation could be a secondary neural overload caused by the violent disconnection of the implant from the hacking interface of the ship that just disintegrated.

I agree that this mechanic -could- be unfair if it is too easy, or if the risk is too low.

But it could be fun as hell too :)
Jonah Bridges
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-10-25 12:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Bridges
CaiJi Du wrote:
I am quite unsurprised by the knee-jerk responses thus far.

The instant anyone suggests something that doesn't fit -your- idea of how the game ought to be played, you start quoting your own PvP mentality.

PvP is legitimate play, of course, but so is my idea.

EVERY argument revolves around your fixed ideas that a PvP combat approach is the only approach. anything that you cannot defend against using your preferred method (shoot it) meets with your automatic derision.

That's okay, but damn, listen to you getting personal with me, and you guys call carebears whiners. *lol*

What I'd like to hear is if there are any who would enjoy PvP on a more covert level, who would like to see more development towards this field, some interesting ways to utilize their covert frigates, etc.

If this mechanic I've suggested doesn't fly, that's fine. I'd still like to hear if there are other "Carebears" and Lone Wolves out there who actually would delve into Covert PvP i such mechanics were introduced. Things that would appeal to those more interested in chess than paintball.




I am by far a covert ops flyer, ive been involved in Bombers Bar ops and solo hunt in WH's using stealth as a tank rather than armor or shields. my PVP specializes heavily in stealth not many people have flown in a bomber fleet that have taken out carriers, if you do not believe me then go check my killboards.

I will start by saying that this idea is an acceptable form of theft, and i for one would like to try it, but as this original concept stands it is OP in its current form, I am liking the idea of setting your character to criminal status whilst this implant is plugged inas suggested, or having stations decloak ships through means of a pulse battery of some kind every 3 to 5 mins. I believe that this tool can be used as a devastating weapon and should be developed carefully as to not completely annihilate smaller corporations who dont have as much money as some Null sec alliances, or even WH corps.

Also you talked about getting away scot free pretty well, I believe that would not be appropriate at all, because even Hisec Gankers still have to deal with criminal status and killrights, the same should be applied using this implant, the CEO of a corporation is given the killright of the thief who stole from him, in my experience killrights dont really do much at all unless you are caught out by bounty hunters waiting on gates (or go afk in an ice belt)

There are lots of ways this implant (it would need a new working module as well im guessing) could be used, I run a small corporation that doesnt earn much ISK so this Implant would be devastating for my corp to be struck by, but handy to use against others.

another thought, I do not believe that it should be used in Hisec at all, maybe Losec but just like how smart bombing and general bombing is restricted by CONCORD maybe this should be nerfed in that fashion as well.

I enjoyed your story as well. you write well.

Good Hunting

oh %$#@ it

Foxicity
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-10-25 13:48:40 UTC
POSes don't store isk. Furthermore I am vehemently opposed to the proposed isk skimming as I do not believe player wallets belong in the PVP landscape. Don't give me some equivocal bullcrap about how traders expose their wallets to PVP. Next point.

POSes do, however, store materials. Those are in the PVP landscape. Mobile Siphon Units already exist. Next point.

OP, what remains in your argument, as I have picked out the parts I don't like, is that you'd like to F with POS setups by hacking. Honestly, I think that might be interesting. But there has to be a counter, a real one. "Might accidentally decloak if incompetent" is not a counter.
Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-10-25 14:41:18 UTC
Ha! -1

Your rationalization to carebear superiority is quite entertaining.

For one thing, the balance of cloaking is the inabililty to interact with anything while cloaked.

On a long enough timeline, the life expectancy of everyone drops to zero.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#31 - 2014-10-25 14:44:44 UTC
CaiJi Du wrote:

"Carebears". I smile when I hear that name, because it is intended to be derogatory, but I have come to associate it with a breed of players possessed of a steely resolve few PvPers can claim.

this made my morningBig smile
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#32 - 2014-10-25 14:45:51 UTC
CaiJi Du wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
TLDR

Medication for ADHD

See, I'm tryng to help Twisted

if any thin ever needed a tldr ,its this
Heresy Heresy
Para's Lumbar Support
Gooseflock Featheration
#33 - 2014-10-25 22:53:49 UTC
...What happens if an ISBoxer decides to sap a corp with all his alts?
Systemlord Rah
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-10-25 23:57:45 UTC
you could simply add that if Corp x is hacket in 24h the defence against it will rise until its impossible
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#35 - 2014-10-26 00:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Carrigan
This may or may not be the single most ****tarded idea I've seen. In no way, shape or form would this improve gameplay, nor would it add any content except for thievery by lazy carebears who refuse to do anything beyond try to force single player gameplay into an MMO, spew tears and ****post when their boats get violenced because they are AFK mining, or don't know how to use their D-Scan.

HTFU or GTFO. If you choose the latter, feel free to give your stuff before you enter the biomass queue over Arrow

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

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