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Balancing ships and ammo !

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Prize Bot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-09-14 04:24:53 UTC
Gaming God wrote:
In every patch note and briefing from CCP i Always see the are balancing stuff .
In the past the nerfed Caldari missile launchers zo mutch that the are completly broken now .
Any way CCP is balancing the frek out of this game right ?.


Why not balance the ganking system that is accepted greatly in this game ?

Shooting down a 22 bil marouder ship (That is not alloaght to fight back until it is attakt ) With 5 dystroyers ships that cost 1 mil a peace within in 5 secconds needs to be nerft .

You have to admit there is an balancing problem here or not ?
Since we all have accepted ganking and since this ganking is part of this game since then it should be watch on too and being nerfed like everything else too .

I dont know what exaktly needs to be nerfed but i take any sugestions in this topic .

So a 5 mil gang shooting down a 22 bil defencles ship in 5 secs shoold be nerfed becouse its not balanced like everyting else is in this game :)


https://zkillboard.com/kill/40384034/

I'm assuming this is what you are referencing. Ganking ships like yours isn't easy, our members did a lot of work to find you, and we spent like 4-5 hours sitting around waiting for you to move in a way that would allow us to put a bunch of Nado's in front of you without you being aware of what was going on. That Gank cost us 600,000,000 ISK and would have been much more expensive if we would have been required to use all of the Nado's we brought based on what we assumed your fit to be.

Also : https://zkillboard.com/kill/41201390/

This loss was entirely preventable, there is no way to lose a pod in high sec unless you are not paying attention.

Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2014-09-14 04:28:16 UTC
The Op has the greatest name in the game, belongs to best named corp and has the best corp history.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2014-09-14 04:30:02 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
The Op has the greatest name in the game, belongs to best named corp and has the best corp history.


Were you thinking of applying? Roll

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#84 - 2014-09-14 04:39:27 UTC
Prize Bot wrote:
Gaming God wrote:
In every patch note and briefing from CCP i Always see the are balancing stuff .
In the past the nerfed Caldari missile launchers zo mutch that the are completly broken now .
Any way CCP is balancing the frek out of this game right ?.


Why not balance the ganking system that is accepted greatly in this game ?

Shooting down a 22 bil marouder ship (That is not alloaght to fight back until it is attakt ) With 5 dystroyers ships that cost 1 mil a peace within in 5 secconds needs to be nerft .

You have to admit there is an balancing problem here or not ?
Since we all have accepted ganking and since this ganking is part of this game since then it should be watch on too and being nerfed like everything else too .

I dont know what exaktly needs to be nerfed but i take any sugestions in this topic .

So a 5 mil gang shooting down a 22 bil defencles ship in 5 secs shoold be nerfed becouse its not balanced like everyting else is in this game :)


https://zkillboard.com/kill/40384034/

I'm assuming this is what you are referencing. Ganking ships like yours isn't easy, our members did a lot of work to find you, and we spent like 4-5 hours sitting around waiting for you to move in a way that would allow us to put a bunch of Nado's in front of you without you being aware of what was going on. That Gank cost us 600,000,000 ISK and would have been much more expensive if we would have been required to use all of the Nado's we brought based on what we assumed your fit to be.

Also : https://zkillboard.com/kill/41201390/

This loss was entirely preventable, there is no way to lose a pod in high sec unless you are not paying attention.



Once you guys execute though, there is no way to stop it. 18 Nados can tear through just about any ship in highsec.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2014-09-14 04:42:04 UTC
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2014-09-14 04:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Veers Belvar wrote:


Once you guys execute though, there is no way to stop it. 18 Nados can tear through just about any ship in highsec.


So could 18 Wolves. What's your point?

On that note, 18 gank 'Nado's would be an incredibly pricey investment, so if you're using that many, you really wanna make sure it's worth it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Prize Bot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2014-09-14 04:46:00 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Prize Bot wrote:
Gaming God wrote:
In every patch note and briefing from CCP i Always see the are balancing stuff .
In the past the nerfed Caldari missile launchers zo mutch that the are completly broken now .
Any way CCP is balancing the frek out of this game right ?.


Why not balance the ganking system that is accepted greatly in this game ?

Shooting down a 22 bil marouder ship (That is not alloaght to fight back until it is attakt ) With 5 dystroyers ships that cost 1 mil a peace within in 5 secconds needs to be nerft .

You have to admit there is an balancing problem here or not ?
Since we all have accepted ganking and since this ganking is part of this game since then it should be watch on too and being nerfed like everything else too .

I dont know what exaktly needs to be nerfed but i take any sugestions in this topic .

So a 5 mil gang shooting down a 22 bil defencles ship in 5 secs shoold be nerfed becouse its not balanced like everyting else is in this game :)


https://zkillboard.com/kill/40384034/

I'm assuming this is what you are referencing. Ganking ships like yours isn't easy, our members did a lot of work to find you, and we spent like 4-5 hours sitting around waiting for you to move in a way that would allow us to put a bunch of Nado's in front of you without you being aware of what was going on. That Gank cost us 600,000,000 ISK and would have been much more expensive if we would have been required to use all of the Nado's we brought based on what we assumed your fit to be.

Also : https://zkillboard.com/kill/41201390/

This loss was entirely preventable, there is no way to lose a pod in high sec unless you are not paying attention.



Once you guys execute though, there is no way to stop it. 18 Nados can tear through just about any ship in highsec.


Well of course not, if we spend the time researching him as a target, and then form a fleet to go after him we're not going to bring a dozen pots and pans frigs and hope the DPS is enough, we had intel on his fit and brought more than enough alpha to kill him. Lacco put a lot of work into this gank. And our guys sat around for a long time waiting for our opportunity. It's not like Gaming God was some random scrub we threw 1.8 Billion ISK in Tornadoes at on a whim. He was pretty much invulnerable to us due to game mechanics most of the time we spent hunting him. He was only vulnerable to a gank for a very small amount of time, and we brought the resources to ensure he wasn't going to get away in that small timeframe.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-09-14 04:48:06 UTC
I think Prize's point is, Beers, that with excellent planning, preparation, and execution, there's no way to stop anything.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#89 - 2014-09-14 04:53:09 UTC
Prize Bot wrote:




Well of course not, if we spend the time researching him as a target, and then form a fleet to go after him we're not going to bring a dozen pots and pans frigs and hope the DPS is enough, we had intel on his fit and brought more than enough alpha to kill him. Lacco put a lot of work into this gank. And our guys sat around for a long time waiting for our opportunity. It's not like Gaming God was some random scrub we threw 1.8 Billion ISK in Tornadoes at on a whim. He was pretty much invulnerable to us due to game mechanics most of the time we spent hunting him. He was only vulnerable to a gank for a very small amount of time, and we brought the resources to ensure he wasn't going to get away in that small timeframe.


Once you guys execute, your success rate for these ops is pretty close to 100%, right? It's all pretty terrifying for people in highsec :)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2014-09-14 04:58:59 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Prize Bot wrote:




Well of course not, if we spend the time researching him as a target, and then form a fleet to go after him we're not going to bring a dozen pots and pans frigs and hope the DPS is enough, we had intel on his fit and brought more than enough alpha to kill him. Lacco put a lot of work into this gank. And our guys sat around for a long time waiting for our opportunity. It's not like Gaming God was some random scrub we threw 1.8 Billion ISK in Tornadoes at on a whim. He was pretty much invulnerable to us due to game mechanics most of the time we spent hunting him. He was only vulnerable to a gank for a very small amount of time, and we brought the resources to ensure he wasn't going to get away in that small timeframe.


Once you guys execute, your success rate for these ops is pretty close to 100%, right? It's all pretty terrifying for people in highsec :)


Being terrified is also no reason for a rebalance.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#91 - 2014-09-14 05:02:43 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Once you guys execute though, there is no way to stop it. 18 Nados can tear through just about any ship in highsec.
"If you bring the right tool for the job, you can get the job done. That's imbalanced."

These posts of yours are reaching the point of self-parody.

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Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#92 - 2014-09-14 05:08:50 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Once you guys execute though, there is no way to stop it. 18 Nados can tear through just about any ship in highsec.
"If you bring the right tool for the job, you can get the job done. That's imbalanced."

These posts of yours are reaching the point of self-parody.


Yawn...the important questions of course is how much it SHOULD cost to get the job done, with the optimal tools. That would determine if a rebalance is warranted.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#93 - 2014-09-14 05:13:28 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Once you guys execute though, there is no way to stop it. 18 Nados can tear through just about any ship in highsec.
"If you bring the right tool for the job, you can get the job done. That's imbalanced."

These posts of yours are reaching the point of self-parody.


Yawn...the important questions of course is how much it SHOULD cost to get the job done, with the optimal tools. That would determine if a rebalance is warranted.


However much is needed. If you are doing a poor job with your battleship then it won't take much.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#94 - 2014-09-14 05:16:51 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yawn...the important questions of course is how much it SHOULD cost to get the job done, with the optimal tools. That would determine if a rebalance is warranted.
Typical carebear, literally yawning past the part where the game actually gets played, to get to the ISK bottom line.

Neither what is required for a gank, nor what is required to be able to avoid one, can be bought or sold on the market. This is why no matter how much and how often suicide ganking is 'nerfed' by making the relevant ship losses more expensive, it still happens.

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Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#95 - 2014-09-14 05:16:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Once you guys execute though, there is no way to stop it. 18 Nados can tear through just about any ship in highsec.
"If you bring the right tool for the job, you can get the job done. That's imbalanced."

These posts of yours are reaching the point of self-parody.


Yawn...the important questions of course is how much it SHOULD cost to get the job done, with the optimal tools. That would determine if a rebalance is warranted.


However much is needed. If you are doing a poor job with your battleship then it won't take much.


Agreed ofc...OP made it way too easy for them. I already gave my fitting suggestion to him.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#96 - 2014-09-14 05:19:20 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yawn...the important questions of course is how much it SHOULD cost to get the job done, with the optimal tools. That would determine if a rebalance is warranted.
Typical carebear, literally yawning past the part where the game actually gets played, to get to the ISK bottom line.

Neither what is required for a gank, nor what is required to be able to avoid one, can be bought or sold on the market. This is why no matter how much and how often suicide ganking is 'nerfed' by making the relevant ship losses more expensive, it still happens.


Not sure what this means. For a given number of gankers, and a given ehp of the target, and given the security status of the system - there is a minimum isk price to gank before CONCORD shows up. It's literally just a math problem.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#97 - 2014-09-14 05:20:03 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Not sure what this means.
Obviously.

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Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#98 - 2014-09-14 05:20:41 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Not sure what this means.
Obviously.


Good catch.
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2014-09-14 05:22:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiply Rustic
Veers Belvar wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Once you guys execute though, there is no way to stop it. 18 Nados can tear through just about any ship in highsec.
"If you bring the right tool for the job, you can get the job done. That's imbalanced."

These posts of yours are reaching the point of self-parody.


Yawn...the important questions of course is how much it SHOULD cost to get the job done, with the optimal tools. That would determine if a rebalance is warranted.



No.

This is far too simplistic. You throw skill, communication, knowledge, planning, and coordination out the window here and somehow arrive at wallet wars.

You don't decide balance by saying a 25 billion ISK blingboat should only be vulnerable if XX billion worth of gank is brought to the party. Well, you might...but you would be wrong because the only way that logic holds up is if everything else is equal; and it never, ever, is.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#100 - 2014-09-14 05:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
Veers Belvar wrote:
Prize Bot wrote:




Well of course not, if we spend the time researching him as a target, and then form a fleet to go after him we're not going to bring a dozen pots and pans frigs and hope the DPS is enough, we had intel on his fit and brought more than enough alpha to kill him. Lacco put a lot of work into this gank. And our guys sat around for a long time waiting for our opportunity. It's not like Gaming God was some random scrub we threw 1.8 Billion ISK in Tornadoes at on a whim. He was pretty much invulnerable to us due to game mechanics most of the time we spent hunting him. He was only vulnerable to a gank for a very small amount of time, and we brought the resources to ensure he wasn't going to get away in that small timeframe.


Once you guys execute, your success rate for these ops is pretty close to 100%, right? It's all pretty terrifying for people in highsec :)

If you use a scout, there success rate against you would be about 0%.

Not all mechanics in the game need to have a hard counter that is based around engaging the hostiles in combat. When there are that many people against just the one you, the hard counter becomes stealth and patience.

Even without a scout, you can use a mobile depot and fit a cloak before using gates, and cloak/MWD trick out of the gate camp succesfully.

Hey guys.