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Terrorism

Author
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-09-12 19:40:34 UTC
How to be an eve terrorist:

Fly bomber wings. Instapop entire fleets.Pirate

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2014-09-12 21:13:37 UTC
Okay, so, since the CFC would pretty well immediately use this stuff on LITERALLY THE ENTIRETY OF EVE, and would likewise have the same methods used against them, what's the endgame here? K-Space is completely uninhabitable, WH dwellers win eve?
Sigras
Conglomo
#43 - 2014-09-12 23:29:15 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Sigras wrote:
so you're in a 50 man fleet and each of you launches one of these bombs at my 10 man fleet and vice versa

our 10 bombs hit your fleet for 15,625 damage each meaning 156,250 damage to each ship in your fleet

your 50 bombs hit my 10 man fleet for 125 damage each meaning 6,250 damage to each ship in my fleet.

Still think more = better?

Getting around these problems just takes a bit of creativity and forethought...

OK, let's play.

Large group detects small fleet of carriers: Five of them. Large group gets a 50-man gang. Large group also has plenty of ISO-Boxers. The ISO-Boxed alts get into cheap frigate hulls. 50 of them. Cheap frigate hulls land on carrier group. Bombs are dropped. Bombs hit 55 targets, each dealing 20,800 damage,1,040,000 damage total to each ship. Frigates are lost, but who cares? You killed five carriers.

OOH, I love this game.

So your fleet gets into 50 frigates to inflate the bomb's damage. The first bomb goes off dealing 20,800 damage, insta-popping all of the frigates. Each subsequent bomb that lands would see 5 carriers (and lets just say for the sake of the argument that pods are not ignored in this calculation even though they probably should be) and 50 pods, so the second bomb hits for 20,800 damage killing all the pods. the other 48 bombs see 5 carriers, so they each do 15.625 damage for a total of 750 damage.

Congratulations, you managed to strip the shields off of my archons and lose 50 frigates + pods

round 2?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2014-09-12 23:33:48 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Komi Toran wrote:
Sigras wrote:
so you're in a 50 man fleet and each of you launches one of these bombs at my 10 man fleet and vice versa

our 10 bombs hit your fleet for 15,625 damage each meaning 156,250 damage to each ship in your fleet

your 50 bombs hit my 10 man fleet for 125 damage each meaning 6,250 damage to each ship in my fleet.

Still think more = better?

Getting around these problems just takes a bit of creativity and forethought...

OK, let's play.

Large group detects small fleet of carriers: Five of them. Large group gets a 50-man gang. Large group also has plenty of ISO-Boxers. The ISO-Boxed alts get into cheap frigate hulls. 50 of them. Cheap frigate hulls land on carrier group. Bombs are dropped. Bombs hit 55 targets, each dealing 20,800 damage,1,040,000 damage total to each ship. Frigates are lost, but who cares? You killed five carriers.

OOH, I love this game.

So your fleet gets into 50 frigates to inflate the bomb's damage. The first bomb goes off dealing 20,800 damage, insta-popping all of the frigates. Each subsequent bomb that lands would see 5 carriers (and lets just say for the sake of the argument that pods are not ignored in this calculation even though they probably should be) and 50 pods, so the second bomb hits for 20,800 damage killing all the pods. the other 48 bombs see 5 carriers, so they each do 15.625 damage for a total of 750 damage.

Congratulations, you managed to strip the shields off of my archons and lose 50 frigates + pods

round 2?


The bombs don't go off one at a time, they go off during the same server tick (or two) and thus see all 50 frigates/pods...
Sigras
Conglomo
#45 - 2014-09-12 23:42:00 UTC
terrible code implementation not withstanding, you could TiDi right before the bombs are about to go off.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2014-09-12 23:44:57 UTC
Sigras wrote:
terrible code implementation not withstanding, you could TiDi right before the bombs are about to go off.



Which would actually just make things worse by lengthening the ticks, thus making it easier to get all the bombs going at once.

Also, you can't just decide to tidi you know.
Kiera Malukker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-09-13 05:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiera Malukker
Danika Princip wrote:
Okay, so, since the CFC would pretty well immediately use this stuff on LITERALLY THE ENTIRETY OF EVE, and would likewise have the same methods used against them, what's the endgame here? K-Space is completely uninhabitable, WH dwellers win eve?


Who says that you can't deploy the weapons in wh space? The mechanic wouldn't be necessarily tied directly to sov so there's no reason they shouldn't be used there as well.

The end game would a war that would be unending and give people more content over all.

The end game would probably be whatever you could achieve with a warp gate when they add those mechanics to the game. The sov game and end game over all would be more dynamic and those who are playing that game would be forced to make a move.

Besides if the CFC did nuke everyone it might get people to try to over throw their overloads. Again giving more content and it might even cause some in high sec to consider null as something worth participating in because it can affect them directly as well. Which is something ccp has struggled with as well.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-09-13 06:50:21 UTC
Rowells wrote:
The thing about terror in real life is usually based on the fact that I could die. In Eve, you can't really die, so it's hard to be scared of anything except a bad quarterly report. And even then it's mostly anger.


Terror works because the masses can die and that scares them allowing political action to take place by either promoting a campaign or forcing one.

By this logic terror campaigns in eve would have to revolve around damaging not the large assets of current alliances and coalitions but their members.

These attacks would then have to do damage to things like moons that allow lucrative ship replacement programs or do damage to groups renting who can't afford a SRP at all. On of OPs ideas about restricting station use (aka locking member access to assets) might be an option as well.

There is one solid way to terrorize large empires as of now and that is to attack their renters. Given the income from their moons though that's just going to end up being a drop in the bucket even if your campaign against their renters is successful. A boost to siphons in a way that the attacker doesn't benefit but the defender is hurt decently could be one of those changes.

These are methods that work well against larger targets while leaving smaller targets unaffected as well due to the fact that smaller null entities rarely if ever have renter empires and the moons they do have (if they're in control of them) are actually defended because it's likely in their home system. Larger empires however can not denote such massive resources to constantly defend their renters or all their moons.
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#49 - 2014-09-13 07:02:20 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Sigras wrote:
terrible code implementation not withstanding, you could TiDi right before the bombs are about to go off.



Which would actually just make things worse by lengthening the ticks, thus making it easier to get all the bombs going at once.

Also, you can't just decide to tidi you know.


We canStraight
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#50 - 2014-09-13 07:07:59 UTC
Confirming that a mass jump by even something as small as an incursion fleet hitting gates simultaneously will cause tidi in highsec (where crimewatch overhead makes things like jumping hurt the server in the no-no bits)

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#51 - 2014-09-13 10:20:41 UTC
You have to take what Goons say with a grain of salt, because their proposals are entirely self-serving and designed to ensure their continued monopoly on harassing players and dominating entire regions of space.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2014-09-13 17:15:03 UTC
Kiera Malukker wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Okay, so, since the CFC would pretty well immediately use this stuff on LITERALLY THE ENTIRETY OF EVE, and would likewise have the same methods used against them, what's the endgame here? K-Space is completely uninhabitable, WH dwellers win eve?


Who says that you can't deploy the weapons in wh space? The mechanic wouldn't be necessarily tied directly to sov so there's no reason they shouldn't be used there as well.

The end game would a war that would be unending and give people more content over all.

The end game would probably be whatever you could achieve with a warp gate when they add those mechanics to the game. The sov game and end game over all would be more dynamic and those who are playing that game would be forced to make a move.

Besides if the CFC did nuke everyone it might get people to try to over throw their overloads. Again giving more content and it might even cause some in high sec to consider null as something worth participating in because it can affect them directly as well. Which is something ccp has struggled with as well.



...Okay, so you make literally the entirety of EVE completely uninhabitable.

Then what? You never actually addressed my point. What is the endgame here? How can there be an unending war when every single station is locked up, and everyone's assets have been removed? Do we fight one another in ibis fleets?
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#53 - 2014-09-13 17:51:57 UTC
I agree with the point about small groups needing the capabilities to affect larger entities if they do not commit perimeter defenses fleets, that siphons are a joke, that ESS in anomalies is an exploit a, and all that....

BUT
it does not alter the fact that your OP for this point is tactless and fundamentally wrong.

Terrorism is altogether evil, targeting civilians to advance a political agenda.

It has nothing to do in our game, and I hope this thread get locked.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Kiera Malukker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-09-13 19:36:48 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Kiera Malukker wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Okay, so, since the CFC would pretty well immediately use this stuff on LITERALLY THE ENTIRETY OF EVE, and would likewise have the same methods used against them, what's the endgame here? K-Space is completely uninhabitable, WH dwellers win eve?


Who says that you can't deploy the weapons in wh space? The mechanic wouldn't be necessarily tied directly to sov so there's no reason they shouldn't be used there as well.

The end game would a war that would be unending and give people more content over all.

The end game would probably be whatever you could achieve with a warp gate when they add those mechanics to the game. The sov game and end game over all would be more dynamic and those who are playing that game would be forced to make a move.

Besides if the CFC did nuke everyone it might get people to try to over throw their overloads. Again giving more content and it might even cause some in high sec to consider null as something worth participating in because it can affect them directly as well. Which is something ccp has struggled with as well.



...Okay, so you make literally the entirety of EVE completely uninhabitable.

Then what? You never actually addressed my point. What is the endgame here? How can there be an unending war when every single station is locked up, and everyone's assets have been removed? Do we fight one another in ibis fleets?


The entirety of even isn't uninhabitable stations and systems would be locked into the mechanics for a limited time span and due to the costs involved even larger entities would still have to pick and choose their targets so they don't waste vast sums of isk. You claim that it would break everything is simply a lie your telling yourself. It would be as EVE always has been Adapt or get out of the way so someone else can take your place.

I did answer your question when I mentioned that these mechinics would likely be deployed after sov mechanics and after or during the deployment of alliance built star gates. Beyond that EVE is a sand box so there isn't any true end game either way since if you get bored doing one thing then you simply shift your focus elsewhere and do something else.
Kiera Malukker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2014-09-13 19:42:50 UTC
Saisin wrote:
I agree with the point about small groups needing the capabilities to affect larger entities if they do not commit perimeter defenses fleets, that siphons are a joke, that ESS in anomalies is an exploit a, and all that....

BUT
it does not alter the fact that your OP for this point is tactless and fundamentally wrong.

Terrorism is altogether evil, targeting civilians to advance a political agenda.

It has nothing to do in our game, and I hope this thread get locked.


Terrorism has been a part of EVE since its inception with pirates and and other tactics that exploit unprepared individuals and groups. I don't see how RL has any impact on what happens in game. Also Terror attacks in eve do occasionally have political motivation and the civilians of even are essentially the care bears who help manage alliances and assets but don't frequent in pvp themselves.

The context of the discussion is entirely related to potential in game mechanics and has absolutely no connection to RL events. As such the thread should not be locked.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#56 - 2014-09-13 20:16:00 UTC
Kiera Malukker wrote:
Saisin wrote:
I agree with the point about small groups needing the capabilities to affect larger entities if they do not commit perimeter defenses fleets, that siphons are a joke, that ESS in anomalies is an exploit a, and all that....

BUT
it does not alter the fact that your OP for this point is tactless and fundamentally wrong.

Terrorism is altogether evil, targeting civilians to advance a political agenda.

It has nothing to do in our game, and I hope this thread get locked.


Terrorism has been a part of EVE since its inception with pirates and and other tactics that exploit unprepared individuals and groups. I don't see how RL has any impact on what happens in game. Also Terror attacks in eve do occasionally have political motivation and the civilians of even are essentially the care bears who help manage alliances and assets but don't frequent in pvp themselves.

The context of the discussion is entirely related to potential in game mechanics and has absolutely no connection to RL events. As such the thread should not be locked.


If you had labelled your thread freedom fighters, there would not be any issue and it would have made your point even better.

Your labeling is misguided, wrong and I am appalled that you can't see that.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2014-09-13 23:33:42 UTC
Kiera Malukker wrote:


The entirety of even isn't uninhabitable stations and systems would be locked into the mechanics for a limited time span and due to the costs involved even larger entities would still have to pick and choose their targets so they don't waste vast sums of isk. You claim that it would break everything is simply a lie your telling yourself. It would be as EVE always has been Adapt or get out of the way so someone else can take your place.

I did answer your question when I mentioned that these mechinics would likely be deployed after sov mechanics and after or during the deployment of alliance built star gates. Beyond that EVE is a sand box so there isn't any true end game either way since if you get bored doing one thing then you simply shift your focus elsewhere and do something else.



You cannot limit anything in this game by cost. For proof of this, look at the number of supercapitals that exist.

Now, consider that you would be handing both major blocs the keys to a mechanic that would allow them to lock everything of value in their opponent's space, and in highsec.

How likely do you think it is that the CFC and N3 would not go all out with your new mechanics to remove every shred of income their opponents have?

And how long do you think it would be before every major trade hub in the game went the same way?

And how long do you think it would take thirty thousand players to get bored of shitting all over everything their enemies own?



Also, with your moon effects, how much do you want Ishtars to cost? 1b? More?
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