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Pre-CSM Summit Nullsec and Sov Thread

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Gempei
Marvinovi pratele
#141 - 2014-09-12 13:16:47 UTC
Oddsodz wrote:
Make the "LOCAL" chat channel just like wormhole space (yeh I know, been said before) Delayed.

Null sec is not wh, deal with it. Its make no sense, that you hold sov and have no information about enemy (neutral) ships jumping through your gate into your system.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#142 - 2014-09-12 13:26:33 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
So we can plant N+1 players in a system for X amount of hours in cloaky ships to flip the system?


What part of "murdering everything" did you miss from my post?

It's not about just having numbers in system, it's about using them to keep others away. Right now system is yours even if you never visit it again after planting a flag. Only thing stopping others from building a station there is that flag not your men power. I'm not talking about some weird occupancy game mechanics, I'm talking about occupancy by being there and fighting other off "your" ground. System should be yours because you actively prevent others from being there and exploiting its resources not because your alliance ticker is in system info panel.

Don't think in terms of "I will drop 1000 ships for X hours and flip occupancy timer" think in terms "I log in and see strange people in local, they poach my belts and rats and maybe even will suck my moongoo, I need to murder them before more will come".

Again, occupancy by keeping land by force not by some new lines of code calculating "presence factors". Null should be no mans land, you deserve nothing unless you can fend off others from it.


Exactly.

If you can't drive out interlopers "stealing" your resources, then you don't control the territory.
Wormholes work that way today, and they are considered a form of null sec space. If a group rolls in and starts eating your sites, you either watch them helplessly or kill them.

If some group of 30,000 pilots can't manage to control 3,000-4,000 systems at one time, then their territory is too large. (Waiting for people to say this will only lead to larger cartels).

Do the following and a lot of the null sec stagnation goes away:

1. Bye bye any sov.
2. Triple the distances between systems.
3. Wipe out jump bridges completely.
4. Titan bridging costs go up by at least one order of magnitude, and major limitations put on the mass and quantity of ships Titans can move through a jump portal.
5. And yeah, bye bye standard null sec local, and replace it the wormhole version.

But alas, CCP is terrified of the repercussions when the cartel leaders lose their minds at such proposals.
None of this will happen.
Murdoch Luther
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#143 - 2014-09-12 13:30:10 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But alas, CCP is terrified of the repercussions when the cartel leaders lose their minds at such proposals.
None of this will happen.


Truth
Amon leh
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2014-09-12 13:37:13 UTC
Instead of the standard wormhole local , why not make it like wormhole signatures and put a delay on when people show up in local?

That way it'll keep people from AFK camping, but still allow people to roam and get the jump on people not paying attention to dscans. Put the number at something like 30 seconds or so. maybe even up to 5 minutes before people show up on local.

Again, this would allow roamers to catch people and satisfy the roamers, yet due to the cyno mechanic, completely removing local would give too much of a benefit to cloaky campers and those jerks that like to drop supers on everyone. Completely removing local from nullsec would promote the afk camping more than it does now. Just my 2c.
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2014-09-12 13:38:43 UTC
Very much looking forward to this discussion, thanks to all who sent along their feedback over the past few months.

On twitter @siggonK
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#146 - 2014-09-12 13:41:30 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
So we can plant N+1 players in a system for X amount of hours in cloaky ships to flip the system?


What part of "murdering everything" did you miss from my post?

It's not about just having numbers in system, it's about using them to keep others away. Right now system is yours even if you never visit it again after planting a flag. Only thing stopping others from building a station there is that flag not your men power. I'm not talking about some weird occupancy game mechanics, I'm talking about occupancy by being there and fighting other off "your" ground. System should be yours because you actively prevent others from being there and exploiting its resources not because your alliance ticker is in system info panel.

Don't think in terms of "I will drop 1000 ships for X hours and flip occupancy timer" think in terms "I log in and see strange people in local, they poach my belts and rats and maybe even will suck my moongoo, I need to murder them before more will come".

Again, occupancy by keeping land by force not by some new lines of code calculating "presence factors". Null should be no mans land, you deserve nothing unless you can fend off others from it.


Exactly.

If you can't drive out interlopers "stealing" your resources, then you don't control the territory.
Wormholes work that way today, and they are considered a form of null sec space. If a group rolls in and starts eating your sites, you either watch them helplessly or kill them.

If some group of 30,000 pilots can't manage to control 3,000-4,000 systems at one time, then their territory is too large. (Waiting for people to say this will only lead to larger cartels).

Do the following and a lot of the null sec stagnation goes away:

1. Bye bye any sov.
2. Triple the distances between systems.
3. Wipe out jump bridges completely.
4. Titan bridging costs go up by at least one order of magnitude, and major limitations put on the mass and quantity of ships Titans can move through a jump portal.
5. And yeah, bye bye standard null sec local, and replace it the wormhole version.

But alas, CCP is terrified of the repercussions when the cartel leaders lose their minds at such proposals.
None of this will happen.


Sure if the ease of daily living is also bumped down in hisec in the same magnitude by, lets say, having hisec regions separated by npc nullsec and all missions being moved to be based on security status with 1 mission level equivalent to 0.2 of secutiy starting at 1.0-0.9 for L1 to L5 at 0.0 and lower.
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2014-09-12 13:42:12 UTC
Gempei wrote:
Oddsodz wrote:
Make the "LOCAL" chat channel just like wormhole space (yeh I know, been said before) Delayed.

Null sec is not wh, deal with it. Its make no sense, that you hold sov and have no information about enemy (neutral) ships jumping through your gate into your system.



If you are going to quote me, Quote all of me,.

Quote:
Make the "LOCAL" chat channel just like wormhole space (yeh I know, been said before) Delayed. Nobody shows up in it until somebody says hello or wherever. But here is the kicker,. ENFORCE the "Constellation" (yeh the one that you have had closed from day one of the game) chat channel just like what happens to incursions systems as you pass through them. That way you know bad guys are about. But you don't know what system there are in. You still get the intel like you did before, Just not 100% of it like you do now.
Cheradenine Harper
The Grey Area
#148 - 2014-09-12 13:44:08 UTC
Quote:
extended offsite design and discussion session


You all went down the pub, didn't you?

http://diaries-of-a-space-noob.blogspot.co.uk
Tronjay the'3rd
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#149 - 2014-09-12 13:45:24 UTC
There is no simple solution to resolve the current state of nullsec,
but the very first step imo would be:

1. An Alliance can claim sov in null only if the system is used by active pilots who live in a certain system.
There would be certain levels on killed rats, Industrial activities like building etc.

I would like to see more and smaller alliances able to claim their nullsec kingdom.

The current state of nullsec is hurting the playerbase and eventually the commercial goals of CCP.

兵者，詭道也。故能而示之不能，用而示之不用，近而示之遠，遠而示之近

**Sun Tzu **©
Prince Kobol
#150 - 2014-09-12 13:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Zappity wrote:
What was the purpose of the OP? There have been so many threads and discussions. I think you need to provide at least some specifics about your goals if you want meaningful feedback beyond what has already been said.


So far the best post here.

There has been hundreds of idea, some great, some terrible that have been posted about null sec over the years. All that is going to happen is that this thread will be filled with all kinds of random crap from the most stupid ideas from people who have never stepped foot in null sec to dinsdale. The really few good ideas that people have spent considerable time thinking about have alreadybeen posted and discussed before and if they bother to repeat themselves here are most likely going to get lost in a thread that will ultimately turn into a flame war.

It would help tremendously if gave us an idea where you as in CCP would like null sec to go.

There is no way in hell that you guys do not already have a few ideas already fleshed out, in fact I would not be surprised if you already haven't started work on something.

Prove that this thread is actually going to have some use and not just lip service.

Tell us all what ideas you already have, what goals you have, what up want from null sec and what work if any you have done and lets go from there.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#151 - 2014-09-12 13:46:57 UTC
Murdoch Luther wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But alas, CCP is terrified of the repercussions when the cartel leaders lose their minds at such proposals.
None of this will happen.


Truth



Perhaps it will occur to them that the subscriptions of a handfull of overlords is somewhat less than the thousands (that's like 3 zeros on the back end) of bored blue donuters who are more interested in playing an awesome game than ordering something overlords call pubbies around.

I think it was Spok who once said "the fun of the [many] pubbies outways the narcissism of the [few] overlords"

The business model of catering to a few folks leading large blocks will lose it's value as bored pilots forgetting to resub to a played out game shrink the blocks.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#152 - 2014-09-12 13:52:55 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:


Sure if the ease of daily living is also bumped down in hisec in the same magnitude by, lets say, having hisec regions separated by npc nullsec and all missions being moved to be based on security status with 1 mission level equivalent to 0.2 of secutiy starting at 1.0-0.9 for L1 to L5 at 0.0 and lower.


+1, of course the self-appointed High Sec propagandist you replied to will be along shortly to call you a stooge of some imaginary cartel or something.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#153 - 2014-09-12 13:59:31 UTC
Amon leh wrote:
Instead of the standard wormhole local , why not make it like wormhole signatures and put a delay on when people show up in local?

That way it'll keep people from AFK camping, but still allow people to roam and get the jump on people not paying attention to dscans. Put the number at something like 30 seconds or so. maybe even up to 5 minutes before people show up on local.

Again, this would allow roamers to catch people and satisfy the roamers, yet due to the cyno mechanic, completely removing local would give too much of a benefit to cloaky campers and those jerks that like to drop supers on everyone. Completely removing local from nullsec would promote the afk camping more than it does now. Just my 2c.


Here's a thought that hasn't occured in probably 3 years in most null rainbow fairy farms. When someone comes into your system the only reason you should be docking up is to get a ship with a point to defend your system. How about that? I don't want to have a shot at ganking your guys that aren't paying attention (of course I'll take what I can get though). I'm in your system to make space ships explode.

You speak of satisfying all people. That whole attitude is you problem. Management is trying to ensure null is a liberal socialist wonderland where everyone is provided with their fair share. In general you guys need to man up and defend your system and learn to protect and provide for youselves.

There are 2 problems here. One is the over arching big picture stale blue donut stagnation crap. The second (which this touches on) is the "I pay rent - where's my protection" while looking out an oupost window crap. When I started playing the game there was this "I'm from null where life is tough attitude" and it meant something. Now w/ rainbow unicorn fairy farm renter theme park land the teeth have left the average null sec pilot.

If AFK cloaking prevents you from undocking you need to go run missions in motsu. At the end of the day the most you can lose is a ship and a pod. Undock and play the game for goodness sake.

Ignore this corprate pinhead trying to provide for everyone.
Dsparil Mal
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#154 - 2014-09-12 14:07:22 UTC
Forget changing anything. Just add more sov. After playing for 3 years nullsec does feel kind of small. 50 jumps seems big at first but after a while it feels too small. Open jove space? =D

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#155 - 2014-09-12 14:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Trin Javidan
i stopt believing nullsec get a overhaul back in 2009, sorry, if you would like to have my 10yr vet null-sec expertise, you should have listend back than and prevented the situation we have now. Like normal companies do, my expertise is for hire.. isk, $$ or T2 bpo ... ow wait... tourney ship donation.. wise.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#156 - 2014-09-12 14:34:33 UTC
i hatechosingnames wrote:

I'd like the ability for Alliances to be able to bribe NPC 0.0 corps (ie Serpentis, Guristas etc) with LP so we can dictate their docking rights.

Similar to faction warfare where opposing militia cannot dock, with enough LP paid each month we become their militia and no one else can dock.


Ja nee, is klar. (Sorry, but there's no English phrase for such an outright forceful invitation to abuse).

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#157 - 2014-09-12 14:46:11 UTC
Nullsec gets 1 year warning that their gameplay may change. Wormhole space finds out by logging onto SiSi. Please tell me again how much you respect the emergent play in w-space.

Your actions here speak plenty loud. As a side note, when the null tears come I'll be there licking them and promoting the changes just as null treated wh residents in Hyperion.

Or maybe by the time late 2014 rolls around I'll have peaced out. Nah, I'll probably be here bitter vetting it up.
ElectronHerd Askulf
Aridia Logistical Misdirection
#158 - 2014-09-12 14:47:04 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
also, when are ESS being fixed?

or does everyone just pretend they never happened?


Pretend what happened?
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#159 - 2014-09-12 14:57:30 UTC
I actually like structure shoots.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
W Sherman Elric
Argentum Holdings
#160 - 2014-09-12 15:00:54 UTC
what about a remapping of null make it more like a grape bunch with the thick stem being high sec the small stems being low sec and the grapes being null.

then limit jump ranges so that you have to be three or fewer low sec jumps from the null bunch to jump into it. making it impossible to jump from one null to the other? Limit each null sec to >10 systems

Also all bridging ships should have to jump with the ships they are bridging for?