Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Enough isk lost travelling and waiting? You're not in a position to even speak about loss. What you really mean is opportunity cost.

People running level 4 SOEs are exposed to pvp in low and null-sec, incursions are not. And you are a significant source of isk that is difficult to stop. That is why you need nerfs.

Everything in EVE is connected. The mining permits I sold in high-sec today paid for my naglfar blueprint copies. The incursion isk made today could end up as an enemy titan on the field tomorrow. It is bad for the game for any part of it to exist isolated from the rest of EVE, because ultimately, it isn't. Any isk fountain affects the rest of the game. Botted isk dilutes everyone else's market power. The whole faction warfare fiasco was goonrushed because it was valuable, and difficult to stop. If there is any way to get any advantage, it will be exploited to the last drop.

Obviously my remarks were in the context of the relative rewards of incursions v L4 SOEs, and I pointed out that you need to factor in the time when your making 0 to the isk/hour. And SOE L4 runners in highsec don't go into low/null, they stay safely in highsec - not sure what you are talking about.

Incursions are not "botting" - do you know what botting even means? Lot's of things are significant sources of isk - ratting, missions, etc.. Eve is experiencing deflation, so you should be looking to increase isk faucets, not nerf them. If anything, your target should be mining.

But again you are just part of the usual "nerf highsec" to force everyone into low/null crowd - and thankfully CCP has ignored you guys for years, and made the game better in the process.

All you are really doing is showing the need for effective punishments in Eve. Bad activity in the game carries no real consequences, hence the joyous desire of many players to achieve Lose-Lose solutions, and the difficulty in using diplomacy to arrive at Win-Win solutions. Basically the total lack of any real punishment for messing everyone over, and the fact that a lot of people delight in doing so, is precisely why giving a few players the ability to shut down all highsec incursions is rather crazy. If excessive mom-popping resulted in a 60 day sentence in "Eve-jail" I assure you that fewer players would pursue it. Rather than sitting there entertained by the drama, or complaining that there is too much drama, realize what it stems from, why the current tools are insufficient to quell it, and realize that a viable solution is needed. And yes, the lack of punishment explains a lot of activity in Eve that we don't see in RL - suicide ganking, -10 sec status, scamming, market manipulation, etc...

Wowzers - completely missing the point as per usual.....If you have been paying attention you will appreciate that there is no viable way to punish people for popping all the moms to deny everyone highsec incursions. If you could get your mind past PEW PEW EXPLOSIONS BLOW UP etc.... you would appreciate that there is no effective way to cause enough gank damage to make them stop. And since this is highsec, that's fine, highsec isn't about blowing people up to change their activity - it just doesn't work. CODE spent 400 billion ganking miners, and yet there is more mining than ever - it's all a massive FAIL. The problem here is that 30 people have the arbitrary power to deny everyone else highsec incursions - that is absurd, and it should change. End of story.

I get the feeling you don't actually know me if you're starting this post off with "as per usual". Telling me that from a Feb. 2014 character is pretty ******* hilarious. Try posting with an older character that I know and maybe I'll take your words with less than the freighter's worth of salt that I've used so far.

I have been paying attention. I've read the entire ******* thread from start to finish. It's why I think you're full of ****.

First: I'm not talking solely about ganking people, as effective as it is. You want to ruin an incursion community's day, you wardec the pilots in them (especially the FCs) and force them to cut their profits by forcing them to either drop into NPC corps or not fly. Incursion communities do not allow pilots with active wardecs to fly with them. End of story.

Second: My mind is well past "PEW PEW EXPLOSIONS", in fact to the point where I honestly don't feel like shooting anything for a while, player, NPC or otherwise. Mostly because I'm taking a break after an AT12 run. As above, there are ways to deal with this that don't involve ganking. If you don't want to shell out for them then that's your goddamn problem and you need to HTFU. CCP should not be in the habit of punishing players for entirely legitimate ingame activity. If CCP didn't want it to be possible for Incursions to be closed as rapidly as possible, it would already not be possible.

Third: CODE, as dumb as some of them are, are still acting within the confines of the rules of the game. So are TVP and ISN. If they're having fun doing it, more power to them. If they're generating tears as a result from people who can't adapt to a changing environment, even more power to them.

Fourth: Fleets require well past 40 pilots for a good survival rate in a mothership site. This mythical '30 people' is a crock of ****. Beyond that, that power rests in the hands of ANY group of players who want to (and can) field a fleet to take down the mothership. It happens all the time, and was going on well before this current spate of poppings. So many times I'd tab into the ISN or TVP channels to see a bunch of finger-pointing at one group or another about a mothership being popped early. Sometimes they'd agree on who did it, sometimes they wouldn't.

Back to my point, however: Your "point", as poorly-grounded as it is, has nothing to do with my suggestion about incursions. Kindly refrain from trying to connect the two when you are clearly incapable of doing so.

Oh man....you just made my day. This is one of the most hilarious posts I've ever read on the forums, you would absolutely have a promising career as a stand up comic. This is my main by the way, so I got no one else to post with. Let me guess though, you singlehandedly destroyed BoB, are a lifelong Goon, and some suspect an actual alt of Mittens? Well played, sir.

FIRST: Wardeccing the pilots? Brilliant idea, Sherlock. I'm amazed no one has ever thought of that idea before. You have literally revolutionized incursion interdiction. Oh wait, did you happen to peruse the 42 page whine over 1 man corps dodging wardeccs? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=372423&p=42 Oh dear. Did you in your infinite wisdom happen to know that only, say, 90% of incursion runners use that 1-man corp (with a few alts maybe) setup? Oh dear, I guess that makes your first suggestion a giant pile of FAIL. Kudos on the effort though, it definitely takes some to come up with a solution that literally lights 50 million isk on fire per wardecc to accomplish nothing.

Second: Completely vapid with no point made other than "look at me I flew in the AT." Congrats - I seriously hope you were better at that than at coming up with solutions to interdict incursions - because if not some of the other teams may have been subsidizing your tournament participation.

Third: Yes, no one claimed otherwise. The point was that the rules should change, not to get bans for CODE, TVP, or ISN. Unclear how this helps prevent the moms from popping.

Fourth: hahahahhaha. You don't think 30 people can do a mom site? You must be joking. 3 guys with ISBoxer controlling 10 ships each could do it. But hey, back up your words. Would you like to bet 50 billion Isk that I can do a mom site with a 30 man fleet and not lose more than one ship? Put your money where your mouth is 2008 vet.

Please please please do some actual research next time before posting. On the other hand, you were good for some comic relief. If your entire post was a giant troll - well done and keep it up.

You are confused again...Read up on real versus nominal inflation. The fact is that ISK prices of Eve stuff is declining, hence we have sustained nominal deflation. Now if Plex was also deflating by the same amount, we would have stasis, which would mean that the growth rate of isk is slower than the growth rate of stuff, but the supply of stuff and demand for stuff (in $$$ terms) has not changed. Ditto if we saw nominal inflation of stuff, and Plex inflating by the same amount. In real terms that would be stasis. Here, where stuff and Plex are moving in OPPOSITE directions, what we have is a glut of stuff relative to $$$ demand for it through Plex - which means massive deflation of Eve stuff. Guess what causes that? Mining. Use your brain. Think. If we had too many isk faucets, we would see inflation of Eve stuff and inflation of Plex. The fact that we have a deflation of Eve stuff shows that the problem isn't ISK faucets, the problem is too much mining. Go read an Economics book, I don't have the time to teach high school level stuff here.

You just stated that incursions were designed to be competitive, well what's more competitive than allowing someone a means to sabotage your progress short of suiciding to kill your shiny incursion ships?

The solution to every underdog situation should not be to simply find a way to make your fist bigger, this is the philosophy that ends up with a blue doughnut.

By the way level 5 missions are plenty profitable on the LP alone we really don't need a bigger source of LP.

Other than offending you just what have these people done to deserve any punishment from CCP?
Have they violated the TOS?
Have they used some form of exploit to accomplish this?
Are they using some form of illegal software to accomplish this?
If they are doing any of the above then you should not be here in the forums you should be filing official reports of misconduct and supplying CCP with any and all information you have to prove your case.

I find it very interesting that over the course of this topic you have transitioned from calling this "early mom popping" to "excessive mom popping" and I wonder which you really believe it is?

None of this changes the fact that you still fail to understand the most basic aspect of this whole situation.

CCP created incursions.
CCP placed into that code a set of conditions that once met the mom site would spawn.
CCP placed into that code the conditions that if the mom site was cleared the incursion ended.
If a group of players(size is not important here) sees that the mom site has spawned, and that group of players clears the mom site ending the incursion there is nothing going on here but game as intended. There is no possibility for "early mom popping" or even "excessive mom popping".

Going back to a time long before the Veers Belvar character ever entered the EVE universe, I am not sure about the person behind the character but things you say lead me to believe that you have not been in the game any longer than Veers. Anyway excuse me I ramble again. A long time ago CCP proposed the idea of incursions and they were radically different than what we know today. After a severe verbal beating at the hands of the players CCP wisely choose to go back and re-work the idea of incursions ultimately ending with what we have today. They were intended to be few in number and they were intended to offer new, challenging and exciting game play based around a lore they created. As is often the case with things CCP puts into this game we the players have morphed it into something that was not intended or even thought possible when it the idea was first floated out to the public.

Does the incursion side of the game need some adjustments? maybe but what remains the real problem. Certainly CCP should not go back on the lore created for incursions so that places some limitations. Accounting for the negative effects on all of the non-incursion players in the affected systems must be accounted for as well. The ISK versus risk needs to be looked at as does the ISK/LP payouts especially if they make more incursions available.

As a former police officer and now a concerned citizen I hope to hell that this statement was off the cuff or not thought out very well and I hope it was not intended as it sounds. You see EVE my good sir is exactly like real life in all it's ugly as well as all it's good aspects.

Every night when i read the papers there is another senseless murder or someone got angry or just weird and shot/stabbed/beat someone very much like the suicide gankings here in game. Here it is just pixels out in real life it is real blood and real people being hurt/killed with real families that suffer for a lifetime and all of these things happen for the most crazy reasons. A local one for me awhile back was a teenage boy who shot a classmate because she would not go to the prom with him. Lucky for the young lady and her family she survived the attack and lucky for society that young man is in jail for a very long time with no chance to get out.

OK you got me on the -10 sec status the only RL thing I can come up with that is close would be a criminal record, and yet in a lot of ways they have the same affect. In EVE low sec status prevents players from accessing parts of space in the same way that a criminal record prevents some people from obtaining certain privileges or access to some portions of our society.

And let's not get started about scamming people. There are estimates that here in the US alone scammers cost those over the age of 60 more than a billion dollars a year and that sir is just a very small fragment of the population and a very small fragment of the scams that go on everyday.

Do you really think that market manipulations only exist in a game? The recession that the US has been dealing with for the past few years was caused in part by some big time stock and mortgage market manipulations. Go to the library or look online and you can find an almost limitless number fo articles about market manipulations of one sort or another.

And least we not forget the good side. In real life there are those who dedicate their lives and in some cases a substantial portion of their personal wealth just to help those that are not as fortunate and here in EVE we have players like The Angel Project and her supporters that freely give out help and advice and well as bilions of ISK of stuff to new players.

No sir, I am afraid that EVE in all its good and bad is very much a reflection of all that goes on around us in this world. If you are in a position that you are not aware of these things, or impacted by these things in your life then you are extremely lucky.

To close this one out. All you out there that enjoy the suicide ganking portion of the game please no hate mail, slings and arrows etc. I do not now, never have and never will truly consider you to be the same as these ugly people from real life. I use you to illustrate a point that EVE is in fact like real life. For all I know most of you are outstanding citizens and worthy of much praise in real life.