Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I love how everyones argument about the whole incursion thing is that its such an isk faucet, and no risk. I make 1 bill and hr per toon doing c5 cap escalations with very little risk....that's 10X what an incursion runner makes an hour.

....oh wait, I forgot to mention....we have a fleet spamming d-scan, setting cloaked 30km from the warp in spots of sleeper sites, and a handful of pilots carefully watching for anything that might drop on us. Its almost too easy. The reason for that...we are efficient, organized, and careful. This translates to what most people would consider, as a risk free isk faucet. But don't forget, we have a fleet working together to protect itself while the sites are being run. Much like incursions. All it take is a few late broadcasts, or late reps for a 4 bill vindi to burn...Ive seen it. That rarely happens anymore because everyone is organized, works together, and efficient at running the sites = risk free isk faucet???? Just because you think something is easy, doesn't mean it is for those that are doing the work.

Yes, just like if you shut down all mining in highsec there would still be mining in lowsec - making your point irrelevent, of course. Go tell all the highsec miners to mine in lowsec, and let me know how they respond.

Really? I stand corrected, then.

@Veers Belvar - To be honest, I'm surprised nobody's called you out on this yet, but comparing mining with incursioning is literally the same as comparing apples to frying pans. Mining is done in a completely different way with ships that are helpless to fight back when caught. Lowsec mining also doesn't pay nearly enough to justify the risk.

Lowsec incursions, on the other hand, can be done with a fleet of unshiny battleships and unshiny T2 support. Highsec incursions can too, for that matter; it's just that everyone demands shiny in order to run the sites faster. Lowsec incursions also pay much better than lowsec mining.

Please, for the love of Bob, stop talking out your ass.

In fact, just stop talking. You've demonstrated quite thoroughly that you're only capable of arguing one thing: "Mining and missioning don't get shut down, it's not fair". EVE isn't fair. Highsec isn't fair. Life isn't fair. If you must continue to throw your toys out of the pram, at least do so quietly. Now go away.

I'll play devils advocate a bit. While mining can be done solo, incursions can not. If the comparison is to be made to mining, ice would be more appropriate. More profitable, and higher risk of gankers. While mining in any regard would be nearly impossible to shut down in high sec, it'll always reset at downtime. Incursions are not the case. I think what belvar is trying to say is that if incursions are going to be a pve group based system...they should always be available, in high, low, and null sec...even if at a predetermined time (like belts respawning). Though technically yes, the mechanics are working "properly", I myself haven't been able to run incursions in high sec in 2 weeks due to the recent drama. This is disappointing as this is something me and my friends enjoy doing together. Additionally, as with anything in eve...it doesn't satisfy our in game interest all the time. It's a part time thing for us, not for the isk...but a change up from mining, rattling, wormholes stuff, etc.

Why shouldn't we have more incursions... Its content that binds us to this game, be it PvE or player generated. And the moment player generated content stifles gameplay (AoE doomsdays killing PvP anybody)... then a fix must be presented.

Introduce 5 types of constant Modru / Angel / Gurista / Bloodraider etc Incursions with different damage types / NPC fleets / Waves / Sites / dangers / payouts to compensate. Don't give the new sites MOM sites that "end" incursions. Make them last for a few days and then have them withdraw to another area.

Increase the incursions online at any given time spread across new eden from 5/6 to 30.

Only if the highsec sites pay out half (or less) of what the current ones do, or are lawless PvP zones where CONCORD is disabled until the incursion is removed.

Like i said, if you want more incursions and to be able to run them with less competition and less 'denial' from other players, then i would at least hope the rewards would be adjusted down. Just like if the mission system was changed so that there was a limited pool from all mission runners to choose from, i would expect rewards to go up to reflect competition and players trying to deny other players the ability to run them.

Sure, and let's nerf all other non-competitive isk making activities. Carrier ratitng in null? Let's cut all the bounties by 2/3. Ditto for mining, misison running, etc.... Because it's non competitive, ya know. Why should a guy be able to make 100+ mil an hour ratting in his carrier in the blue donut, often while AFK? Incursions are a heck of a lot harder than that.

No, I'm usually laughing too hard when responding to the "nerf highsec" trolling. Incursion income does not need a nerf - CCP is happy with where it is at. Also,Eve is experiencing generalized deflation, which means that the amount of stuff ( read - mining) is growing at a faster rate than ISK. If anything CCP should be looking to increase the flow of ISK to counteract that. Or it could nerf mining (say a 50% reduction in the amount mined per cycle) since mining is a completely passive activity that lends itself to AFK/botting. Highsec mining is pretty darn risk free as far as I can tell. And good luck increasing risk in deep sov null.

You would know, of course...

The idea that highsec mining is risky is laughable. The belt rats are an utter joke, and CODE only shows up in 5 systems. The fact that the vast majority of miners are AFK speaks volumes about how "risky" it is. Cutting mining yield, given that a large number of minerals already exist in circulation, would reduce the relative reward for mining, and lead to less of it. That would stop this insane deflation, whether the cause is too much mining or too few ships xploding (which incidentally would be an odd explanation for the deflation given that people are constantly buying new ships anyway).

Many are saying "nerf highsec" - go read the Forums a bit. There is a large contingent of players screaming to make it easier to gank people in highsec, wardecc them, nerf NPC corps, and cut the risk/reward in highsec so the players will be forced to move to wormholes/low/null. Incursions do not have a better risk/reward than competent players running SOE L4s, etc.... They are just more interactive and hence more fun. There is no need to nerf the rewards. There is already enough lost isk travelling, waiting to get into fleet, running with light fleets, breaks, limited number of sites, losing ships, etc....

And by the way the proper metric for measuring deflation isn't looking at the nominal isk value, its looking at the $$$ value of things by comparing it to Plex. Since Plex has quadrupled or so over the last few years, and possibly ships have doubled (I doubt it) thats still 50% deflation - pretty terrible for all the people who worked to get the ships!

TLDR - more incursions, less mining - Eve Better!