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A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#121 - 2014-09-11 06:50:45 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:


Uh oh.

Mr Epeen Cool


No, I'm honestly hoping it doesn't come to that at all. If it happens again, the very first thing I'll do is go through the proper channels of the petition system, as I did last time, in the hope that CCP does what they're apparently committed to doing - making their online community a secure environment where real life harassment is not allowed to perpetuate.

I'm 100% down with that ideal. I just want to see them enforce it with consistency.

This particular situation though, I've already gotten more involved that I wanted to. I was really just gonna post that link to make people think, and then **** off but, I can't say I'm not annoyed with the lack of information and clarity here.


Sorry. I meant something else than you think with my 'Uh oh'. I posted quickly to save the quote.

You see, it struck me that you were posting with the wrong personality. You answered for Kaarous with the same back story as Kaarous so I naturally assumed you were actually Kaarous. Also, comparing doxxing to what I originally quoted (being banned for blowing up a ship) is also what I'd expect Kaarous to say.

I think you can see how I was confused.

But I'll tell you now. I'm going to be paying special attention to the posting from you two Blink

Mr Epeen Cool
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#122 - 2014-09-11 06:52:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
*snip*


Close, but no cigar.

It's more like a man who wakes up one day to find a sign that says "minefield" on his front yard, where he's lived for a while without any problems.

People tell him, "oh, just figure it out for yourself".

Does that man have a right to be upset, or not?


I wouldn't have a problem with CCP's go ahead and find out what will get you banned if I shot at NPC's and asteroid belts all day. Some of the carebear crowd is just gleeful about this.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#123 - 2014-09-11 06:53:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

A GM once told me that putting up lowball buy orders in Osmon or other Sisters of EVE areas is considered "taking advantage of new players".
I'm boned then, been doing it for years.
Quote:

No, you don't. Because typically, you're "dead". And if you're not "dead", you're left scratching your head as to why the eff you just got told that trying to buy LP items at a low price is against the rules.

double boned Sad

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Clara Pond
Never Not Snazzy
#124 - 2014-09-11 06:55:36 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
They stood next to the sign looking out at the long grass. Right next to them was a sign reading 'Danger, Minefield'


Do you think it's a problem that The Mittani got away with a one month ban for inciting widespread RL harassment, or that botters get multiple warnings, while these people are getting zero warning permabans for crossing an invisible line?

Why, in the face of such subjective and ill-defined offences, are zero-warning permabans justified?

Sorry I tried to keep your analogy going, but it doesn't really apply because the whole world is a minefield, but the mines only exist when people get upset.
Rhiannon Marius
Marius Family Enterprises Unlimited
#125 - 2014-09-11 06:55:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Rhiannon Marius wrote:

Exactly how many times have stepped on a land mine?


Since we're still keeping with the analogy, yes, I have, once.

A GM once told me that putting up lowball buy orders in Osmon or other Sisters of EVE areas is considered "taking advantage of new players".


Quote:

Have you been doing the things that got the others blown up?


Since they refuse to talk about it, I don't know if I have or not. I run shitloads of scams, for example.


Quote:

If you have stepped on one you now know better.


No, you don't. Because typically, you're "dead". And if you're not "dead", you're left scratching your head as to why the eff you just got told that trying to buy LP items at a low price is against the rules.



Sigh, some people, they just don't get it.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#126 - 2014-09-11 06:55:42 UTC
Rhiannon Marius wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
*snip*


Close, but no cigar.

It's more like a man who wakes up one day to find a sign that says "minefield" on his front yard, where he's lived for a while without any problems.

People tell him, "oh, just figure it out for yourself".

Does that man have a right to be upset, or not?


Exactly how many times have stepped on a land mine? Have you been doing the things that got the others blown up? If you have stepped on one you now know better. If not you either know by now how to avoid one, or you cannot learn how to avoid one.


So wait till someone gets banned and don't copy what they did. Slight problem with this is CCP doesn't always make their bans and reasons for them public.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#127 - 2014-09-11 06:58:15 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

A GM once told me that putting up lowball buy orders in Osmon or other Sisters of EVE areas is considered "taking advantage of new players".
I'm boned then, been doing it for years.
Quote:

No, you don't. Because typically, you're "dead". And if you're not "dead", you're left scratching your head as to why the eff you just got told that trying to buy LP items at a low price is against the rules.

double boned Sad


Which is why I have a problem with all of this.

No one can tell me that I won't just randomly face account action for doing something I've been doing for years.

Because I already have.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#128 - 2014-09-11 06:59:06 UTC
IIshira wrote:


Exactly how many times have stepped on a land mine? Have you been doing the things that got the others blown up? If you have stepped on one you now know better. If not you either know by now how to avoid one, or you cannot learn how to avoid one.


So wait till someone gets banned and don't copy what they did. Slight problem with this is CCP doesn't always make their bans and reasons for them public. [/quote]

To me at least, and hopefully to others as well, the recordings I listened to were sufficiently appalling that the bans were warranted under any conceivable definition of harassment. It would be one thing if people were getting permabanned for legitimately borderline conduct, but this is really not a good example of that. Anyone involved knew clear as day that they were doing something deeply wrong, and quite rightfully are now facing the music.
Solecist Project
#129 - 2014-09-11 07:01:52 UTC
The fact that there is even discussion here just shows how disconnected people are from actual reality.

While it saddens me that DJ got banned,
I understand the decision behind it completely.


The hard part is making him realise himself .......

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2014-09-11 07:04:02 UTC
Clara Pond wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
They stood next to the sign looking out at the long grass. Right next to them was a sign reading 'Danger, Minefield'


Do you think it's a problem that The Mittani got away with a one month ban for inciting widespread RL harassment, or that botters get multiple warnings, while these people are getting zero warning permabans for crossing an invisible line?

Why, in the face of such subjective and ill-defined offences, are zero-warning permabans justified?

Sorry I tried to keep your analogy going, but it doesn't really apply because the whole world is a minefield, but the mines only exist when people get upset.


Understand that CSM have next to nothing to do with enforcement and punishment so any opinions I have about various bans are just that, MY opinions.

If Mittens pulled that today? Yeah, gone, no deposit, no return.

They have, recently, shortened the chain and strikes for botters. Again, I have little tolerance for such and so have no problem shortening that leash even more. But that is a different department in CCP, I think.

So I guess that means that the current bans are consistent with my model.

And the whole world IS a minefield. The Real World has more laws than any lawyer can keep track of. More mistakes that you can make than anybody can track. So you avoid the big obvious ones that have signs on them. Take your chances with the rest. Falcon has been fairly steady and consistent. Cross lines, BOOM. I notice you didn't mention any lottery sites so I won't either.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#131 - 2014-09-11 07:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Veers Belvar wrote:
IIshira wrote:


Exactly how many times have stepped on a land mine? Have you been doing the things that got the others blown up? If you have stepped on one you now know better. If not you either know by now how to avoid one, or you cannot learn how to avoid one.


So wait till someone gets banned and don't copy what they did. Slight problem with this is CCP doesn't always make their bans and reasons for them public.


To me at least, and hopefully to others as well, the recordings I listened to were sufficiently appalling that the bans were warranted under any conceivable definition of harassment. It would be one thing if people were getting permabanned for legitimately borderline conduct, but this is really not a good example of that. Anyone involved knew clear as day that they were doing something deeply wrong, and quite rightfully are now facing the music. [/quote]

Start of my reply.....



Welcome Veers... I was wondering when you would get to this thread.

Oh I agree with you that the bonus room stuff wasn't too nice. The problem is some caught up in the latest ban sweep weren't involved in that..

All I'm asking is make it clear what is bad. You can keep the gray area but like say "Making fun of other players in local chat is prohibited". The last thing I want is to do something I thought was okay then get banned

Edited to fix quotes
M3PHIST0
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2014-09-11 07:04:15 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
IIshira wrote:


Exactly how many times have stepped on a land mine? Have you been doing the things that got the others blown up? If you have stepped on one you now know better. If not you either know by now how to avoid one, or you cannot learn how to avoid one.


So wait till someone gets banned and don't copy what they did. Slight problem with this is CCP doesn't always make their bans and reasons for them public.


To me at least, and hopefully to others as well, the recordings I listened to were sufficiently appalling that the bans were warranted under any conceivable definition of harassment. It would be one thing if people were getting permabanned for legitimately borderline conduct, but this is really not a good example of that. Anyone involved knew clear as day that they were doing something deeply wrong, and quite rightfully are now facing the music. [/quote]

Most coms are appalling, nobody forced these people to stay logged into coms. They chose to do so, so they could try to get their stuff back. Most people would have logged out, cut their losses and learned from it.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#133 - 2014-09-11 07:08:51 UTC
M3PHIST0 wrote:


Most coms are appalling, nobody forced these people to stay logged into coms. They chose to do so, so they could try to get their stuff back. Most people would have logged out, cut their losses and learned from it.


The scam is allowed. It would have been legit for them to tell the guy - sorry bro, it was all a scam, we took your isk, better luck next time. Pushing it to the next level and getting someone to do embarrassing things on coms in the false and vain hope of getting their own isk back is the problem. The good news is its easy to avoid the same pitfall. If you scam someone just be happy that you got their stuff, no need to rub it in or make them try and do humiliating stuff to get it back. It's just so easy to avoid entirely.
Solecist Project
#134 - 2014-09-11 07:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Not sure why anyone would think this is about the bonus room ...
... or the bonus room only. Was there proof?


Did I miss something?


Curious.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
flower pot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#135 - 2014-09-11 07:10:24 UTC
Looking back in history of EVE, how come Mittani got a few days banned for going out in public the way he did while these guys now is perma banned for something not even half as worse?
looks like CCP isnt consistent if you ask me
Solecist Project
#136 - 2014-09-11 07:11:30 UTC
lol the npc alts ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#137 - 2014-09-11 07:11:35 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Not sure why anyone would think this is about the bonus room ...
... or the bonus room only. Was there proof?


Did I miss something?


Curious.


If you know something, spit it out.

But knock off the dancing around the subject. There's too much smug bullshit on this forum already.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Col Duke Lacross
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2014-09-11 07:13:00 UTC
Call me crazy, but seems to me that if this even is about bonus room stuff (we really don't know for sure yet right?), then it's really kind of simple to find the line of in game vs IRL harassment.

IMHO, bonus rooms really have nothing to do with playing EVE. At that point a scammer/player has only used EVE as a conduit to finding RL suckers to get their jollies on while making them sing or whatever. Sure they're using the victims ISK (or whatnot) as collateral, but that's where the connection to EVE ends.

Most other scams involve way more interaction within the game itself. Where bonus room shenanigans seem to mainly (I did say mainly here) be a way for folks with sociopathic tendencies to get their rocks off.

With that being said, I can see why CCP doesn't want to define this. As I'm sure not all people running the scam fall into that category.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#139 - 2014-09-11 07:13:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Not sure why anyone would think this is about the bonus room ...
... or the bonus room only. Was there proof?


Did I miss something?


Curious.


If you know something, spit it out.

But knock off the dancing around the subject. There's too much smug bullshit on this forum already.


I think she's trying to say that many of the bans had nothing to do with the bonus room... Players who had nothing to do with that were banned. One thing many had in common was CODE
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2014-09-11 07:14:05 UTC
as an aside

The minefield analogy is not the best, just the best I could come up with at the time. I do not want to belittle the horrible weapon that it is nor the damage that it has caused over the years.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯