These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#381 - 2014-09-11 15:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Zen Guerrilla
And today was a good day.



Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
The information we have so far from Ero on this latest round of bans is very disconcerting.

We will update as more information becomes available.

F
The sperge is strong in this one. Keep it coming. Big smile

/edit
But honestly, we totally believe you. I mean, why would a person behaving like a psychopath in an internet spaceship game lie, right?

pew pew
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#382 - 2014-09-11 15:49:57 UTC
Can I just point everyone back to this again for a moment.

CCP Falcon wrote:

What we will do, is continue to use best judgement on a case by case basis...


You all acknowledge that this was said, and the context it was in?

Okay.

One question before I address Seven's. What exactly makes a mass permaban of a bunch of people with little to no communication with the individuals about what they did a 'case by case basis'?

Seven, we don't need a compendium of anything. We need CCP to say, "Hey, this thing you did, it's pretty rotten," followed by a, "don't do it again" or a "this is the second time you've done this, and you're getting banned for a [insert period of time here]."

Cuz I, for one, am not seeing this 'case by case' basis taking place here. Of course, I'm not seeing all the details either but, that's only because no one is because no one but CCP has a clue what's going on other than a bunch of people all got banned at once and it's likely a lot of them did nothing wrong.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#383 - 2014-09-11 15:50:01 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
I must assume that here are a lot of griefer tears.
No one playing EvE at EvE's sake, is in any danger of being hit by the ban hammer.

The one who *are* afraid and crying or go "ggggrrr CCP", will have a reason to be afraid.

Those banned appear to have pushed the boundaries to far. Don't wanna be banned? Do not push the boundaries!
I can not understand how people still doubt the decision over this e1 guy and blame the blogger.
Hmm?
Where is the blogger this time?
No one around? Ok, lets diss CCP...

Yeah OK, you wanna play the bad guy, do that. But pushing the metagame to far, trying to optimise the fountain of tears, you might get hit.

The EvE Sandbox was meant to be a Space-Sandbox guy shoot at other guys.
Not guys humiliate other guys. Some guys need learn some decency.
Its quite clear that CCP dosnt want you to do things, that would you do to complete Strangers you meet at the street. Nothing of that crap would happen.


But eve isn't just a game. Many of us play it like a war, making life as difficult for the other party as possible.

I hate good fights and fair fights. When things go smoothly, the enemy doesn't want to undock. Eventually they don't want to play eve. That is how wars are won.

Pride, humiliation, politics and metagaming are everything. The new order's military might is laughable. But we have media control. If anyone is to get anywhere in this game, they must spy, they must deal with spies, they must discredit and humiliate their enemies.

The meta-game is always pushed to extremes. Those who do not do it will lose in-game. That is why we need guidelines.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#384 - 2014-09-11 15:50:07 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:


Why do you continue to play and financially support a company that allows such things?




This is a good question.


My answer would be that this game seems to thrive on company-player dialog moreso than any other game. The players have a constant hope that such a dialog is meaningful, and that CCP is the type of company to have one with its players.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#385 - 2014-09-11 15:50:16 UTC
"I had nothing to do with it, I never joined this stuff but I'm banned!"

"Alt? What do you mean alt, I have no CODE alt who partakes in this stuff, THAT'S ALL LIES!"
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#386 - 2014-09-11 15:51:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Mr Epeen wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

The core issue here is people getting banned for things they weren't involved in.


Here's the thing.

You (like everyone else posting) have no idea why the bans were done. You are simply speculating to push your agenda.

Mr Epeen Cool


You just proved the point *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. We need to know why people are banned. If it's all bonus room fallout then ccp just has to confirm this.
flower pot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#387 - 2014-09-11 15:51:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Solecist Project wrote:
I keep reading and reading ... and most is crap.
Most people only have their own narrow viewpoint,
instead of actually looking at the issue as a whole.

The most balanced solution would be to simply ban all those
who refuse to learn that standing for a specific viewpoint
is the least intelligent of all possibilities.

The next step: Forum warnings for people who keep creating bait ...
... and those who deliberately eat the bait and somehow think thsy can be superior
to a troll who manipulates them, creating pages after pages of nonsense.

You know who you are and you are easily spottable.


BOOM!

Suddenly, all the actually intelligent people would stop lurking
and actually start communicating, instead of staying lurkers
because of all the mindless forum zombies who have no conscious thoughts in their minds left.


And I am seriously glad I ripped a specific person away from the hate you people infect everyone with.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.



feel free to leave anytime :)
Josef Djugashvilis
#388 - 2014-09-11 15:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Perhaps those who want 'clarification' as to what CCP should consider to be beyond the pale should get together, draft a fool proof, easy to understand document, which covers all possible scenarios and present it to them.

Of course, it is easier to whine about the 'grey areas' than to actually help CCP remove them.

This is not a signature.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#389 - 2014-09-11 15:52:20 UTC
La Rynx wrote:


In the light of a flood of propaganda, your posts are based on FUD!
F ear
U n certainty
D oubt

Times change CCP adapts, so do you, or leave.
CCP leaves intentionaly no exact line, but expects to have some decency.
Seeing what was happening until now, i have noticed one thing:
CCP is not using the ban-hammer excessivly, so i am willing to assume, those bans where reasonable.

Whom do i trust more?
Griefers or CCP?


Incorrect. CCP leaves *no* line. If there was "no exact line" this would be an improvement on the current situation.


Decency is a subjective word. Simply putting it in your post doesn't legitimize your definition of it, you know?

Are there only two types of people in the world.. griefers and CCP?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#390 - 2014-09-11 15:52:53 UTC
This event made my morning. Thank God CCP finally took out some of the trash.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#391 - 2014-09-11 15:53:16 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:


Why do you continue to play and financially support a company that allows such things?




This is a good question.


My answer would be that this game seems to thrive on company-player dialog moreso than any other game. The players have a constant hope that such a dialog is meaningful, and that CCP is the type of company to have one with its players.


That conversation ended over here. But you also make a very valid point. Yes, indeed, I would love to see CCP step up and have a real dialog with us about this.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#392 - 2014-09-11 15:54:36 UTC
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
This event made my morning. Thank God CCP finally took out some of the trash.



Well, it's always good to get a summary from someone who hasn't done the requisite reading.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#393 - 2014-09-11 15:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
The new order's military might is laughable.

I confirm!

Amyclas Amatin wrote:

But we have media control.

That was blown with th AT12 incident..
Running away, tail tucked between legs.
codies are laughing stock.
--> despite the desparate flood of countr propaganda.

Amyclas Amatin wrote:

The meta-game is always pushed to extremes. Those who do not do it will lose in-game. That is why we need guidelines.


CCP had Decency in mind, but was not expecting that ppl threw that concept over board.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#394 - 2014-09-11 15:56:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Sibyyl wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:


What actual outcome are you looking for? A compendium of everything that may or may not be said? What?


Nobody is looking for a compedium. These options aren't binary:

0. Tell us nothing
1. Tell us everything


Nobody is asking to know everything, but I think it's fair as a player to ask what specific rules are being applied to bans. Currently, we are told that it's "whatever CCP wants this to be".

Do you not think that is too general? How is anybody supposed to adhere to a set of rules which *seem* pretty inconsistently applied and not documented by any official source anywhere..



Well it's general, but it's also their prerogative. If in doubt err on the side of caution, or, well, no one is forcing you to stick around.

I had some sympathy with the Ero1 thing as there was a lot of hysteria and run up to the actual ban, but these seem to be bans come out of their internal process, presumably working in a similar way that is has for years (doubt these were the first to be banned for being scummers). Are we going through this for every ban now?
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#395 - 2014-09-11 15:58:23 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
This event made my morning. Thank God CCP finally took out some of the trash.



Well, it's always good to get a summary from someone who hasn't done the requisite reading.



I had to stop at the fourth page because of the tears rolling out of my monitor. My cup runneth over.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#396 - 2014-09-11 16:01:55 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:


Well it's general, but it's also their prerogative. If in doubt err on the side of caution, or, well, no one is forcing you to stick around.

I had some sympathy with the Ero1 thing as there was a lot of hysteria and run up to the actual ban, but these seem to be bans come out of their internal process, presumably working in a similar same that is has for years (doubt these were the first to be banned for being scummers). Are we going through this for every ban now?



How about I stick around and continue to engage in civil dialog for CCP to provide a better outline of what is considered banworthy behavior?

The low resolution of the EULA as it stands may be to your liking, but it appears there is some disruption in communication between CCP and its players since the banned players don't understand what it is they did to get banned. Some of this is posturing (cue NBA references) but some of it is actual confusion.


I don't think a lack of communication is a good thing for any company. It's certainly toxic to the spirit of the game, which has been clearly advertised by CCP in this forum and on public media.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#397 - 2014-09-11 16:03:29 UTC
I wonder if the clattering of pitchforks and the howling for CCP to cater to the entitled player minority actually disrupts the day to day activities in Reykjavik?

Mr Epeen Cool
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#398 - 2014-09-11 16:05:34 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I wonder if the clattering of pitchforks and the howling for CCP to cater to the entitled player minority actually disrupts the day to day activities in Reykjavik?


What howling?
Law was ruled by the jovian empire before the masses could muster ther pitchforks.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#399 - 2014-09-11 16:06:33 UTC
After much pondering, there's at least one common-sense test that can be applied: Wheaton's Law.

The Law itself is only four words, but the legislative notes, as it were, provide sufficient evidence of its spirit:

Wil Wheaton wrote:
Arcades were more than just magnificent geek Shangri-Las, filled with all sorts of video games and pinball machines. They were a vital part of my generation’s social development. If I beat another kid in a two player game and taunted him mercilessly, with explicit references to his mother's sex life and my role in it, the way some online gamers do today, he would have justifiably kicked the everliving [beep] out of me. So I learned – in arcades – the importance of good sportsmanship. Because arcades were real places, staffed by real people, we had to worry about much more than getting kicked off a server if we were complete idiots in a game. I guess this is a double-edged sword, and I’m feeling like a cranky old man by even mentioning it, but would you all do me a favor? When you’re playing online, have fun, and don’t be a [beep], okay?

- PAX Prime Keynote, 2007


Lots of people play the game - lots of people play the villain in the game - while staying well within the bounds of the Law. I think it's a safe assumption that if your actions go beyond the limits of the Law ... you're on thin ice.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
evepal
Scholar of Rationality
#400 - 2014-09-11 16:06:38 UTC
Who knew those who took pleasure in seeking tears were so easily eager to provide their own? The amount of logical fallacies present in the counter arguments so far is astounding. A sentence drenched in personal insults could not portray the butt hurt of those who gambled on moral incredulity and lost out.

Oh by the way, if you get CCP to give a more defined word of harassment than the word itself, could you submit it your local judicial system? It's just that harassment is a legally accepted word in many countries.

If you can't work out the difference between harassment and playing the game, then you've got greater problems as a person operating within society, than a ban on a virtual game. As some of you believe the victims mentioned "could just stop playing" the bonus room at any time, it seems apt to your reactions about the game in general. HFTU.