These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#361 - 2014-09-11 15:18:45 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:

Oh, i know, definitely CCP is not consistent.
I hope i won't be on the wrong side of the fence because i will probably be f*** up and the chances of getting my account back are nil.

The only problem i have is with people who play stupid asking for that white line they can't cross.

We can see it in real life... there are thousands of lines and people still cross them every day hoping they won't be caught.
And when they are caught they play stupid... or argue the lines are too wide and they have no space to walk without crossing them.

If it doesn't work in real life, what makes you think it will work in a game?
If CCP will put down all the possible cases of what you are not allowed to do + whatever think they can happen in the future that might be detrimental to the game/community... how many will read them?
TOS and EULA are already too long and 90% of the people are not reading them anyway.

This is why CCP says to use your brain. If you have to think twice if something it's illegal then probably it is...


We are not villains in real life, but we are villains in EVE.

You wouldn't mug someone for giggles in real life. But in EVE I would shoot you for giggles.

I also wouldn't lure someone into my home to molest them and hear them scream, but in EVE, I love the sound of tears.


The point is... did you read the TOS and EULA from top to bottom when you registered?
Did you read them from top to bottom when they were updated (at least 2 times in the last years)?

Now, here, people complain they are not clear enough.
They want clear lines.
Possible with examples. The more examples the better.

Would you read something 50 times bigger than EULA?
Would you read it every few weeks when CCP declares something illegal and does updates?

You know, sometimes they do changes that are not in change log and, after a downtime, you find some ninja changes.

What if you will have to read that thing every morning because you know ... ninja changes?



And the reasonable alternative to clear guidelines is for us to use our sense of human decency?

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#362 - 2014-09-11 15:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: S'No Flake
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:

Oh, i know, definitely CCP is not consistent.
I hope i won't be on the wrong side of the fence because i will probably be f*** up and the chances of getting my account back are nil.

The only problem i have is with people who play stupid asking for that white line they can't cross.

We can see it in real life... there are thousands of lines and people still cross them every day hoping they won't be caught.
And when they are caught they play stupid... or argue the lines are too wide and they have no space to walk without crossing them.

If it doesn't work in real life, what makes you think it will work in a game?
If CCP will put down all the possible cases of what you are not allowed to do + whatever think they can happen in the future that might be detrimental to the game/community... how many will read them?
TOS and EULA are already too long and 90% of the people are not reading them anyway.

This is why CCP says to use your brain. If you have to think twice if something it's illegal then probably it is...


We are not villains in real life, but we are villains in EVE.

You wouldn't mug someone for giggles in real life. But in EVE I would shoot you for giggles.

I also wouldn't lure someone into my home to molest them and hear them scream, but in EVE, I love the sound of tears.


The point is... did you read the TOS and EULA from top to bottom when you registered?
Did you read them from top to bottom when they were updated (at least 2 times in the last years)?

Now, here, people complain they are not clear enough.
They want clear lines.
Possible with examples. The more examples the better.

Would you read something 50 times bigger than EULA?
Would you read it every few weeks when CCP declares something illegal and does updates?

You know, sometimes they do changes that are not in change log and, after a downtime, you find some ninja changes.

What if you will have to read that thing every morning because you know ... ninja changes?



And the reasonable alternative to clear guidelines is for us to use our sense of human decency?



So it seems What?
If you have a better idea... propose it... maybe there is a 1% chance and CCP would listen.
Or you know, push it rough CSM.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#363 - 2014-09-11 15:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
CCP the company is not being consistent with policy enforcement, in both the game and the forums. Maybe this hasn't affected you yet, so congratulations, but if you're standing here right now and arguing black and blue that CCP have done no wrong and their inconsistency does one day affect you, you ******* remember this day and how you only screwed yourself.

But don't blame Falcon. This is not on him. It's on the company as a whole.


Pointing out CCP hypocrisy is the sucker play. Tweet your indignation while continuing your subscription.

When you know they've got you over a barrel it's all about self preservation.


I don't even know what your point is with this but it feels like projection. Indignation? You lost me.

Also, I don't use Twitter.


you got screwed by CCP.

What you gonna do about it?


Actually, I've already done it. I'm good. All sorted and taken care of and I'm better prepared for the next time it happens, if there is one. Are you trivialising the fact that there is a person currently playing the game that invades the private information of other players and threatens their families?

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


Why do you continue to play and financially support a company that allows such things?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#364 - 2014-09-11 15:22:36 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Actually, I've already done it. I'm good. All sorted and taken care of and I'm better prepared for the next time it happens, if there is one. Are you trivialising the fact that there is a person currently playing the game that invades the private information of other players and threatens their families?

Do you have a crayon stuck in your brain or something?


Why do you continue to play and financially support a company that allows such things?



Why do you?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#365 - 2014-09-11 15:23:50 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

The core issue here is people getting banned for things they weren't involved in.


Here's the thing.

You (like everyone else posting) have no idea why the bans were done. You are simply speculating to push your agenda.

Mr Epeen Cool


Here's the thing, I don't even care about the people who were banned for actually doing the things that they were banned for. I care about the people who were banned solely because they happened to have the channel open when things were happening. Or the person who was banned solely because he stole a titan that was in the process of being sold for real currency. Punishment is only right when it's dished out for the correct reasons. Laziness is not a valid reason.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#366 - 2014-09-11 15:24:29 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Actually, I've already done it. I'm good. All sorted and taken care of and I'm better prepared for the next time it happens, if there is one. Are you trivialising the fact that there is a person currently playing the game that invades the private information of other players and threatens their families?

Do you have a crayon stuck in your brain or something?


Why do you continue to play and financially support a company that allows such things?



Why do you?


Well it's never once happened in the entire time I have played. If I did I'd sure be out the door.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2014-09-11 15:28:47 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Actually, I've already done it. I'm good. All sorted and taken care of and I'm better prepared for the next time it happens, if there is one. Are you trivialising the fact that there is a person currently playing the game that invades the private information of other players and threatens their families?

Do you have a crayon stuck in your brain or something?


Why do you continue to play and financially support a company that allows such things?



Why do you?


Well it's never once happened in the entire time I have played. If I did I'd sure be out the door.


So out of sight, out of mind? Is that it? Yep, that's the common theme around here, and that's why I still give CCP my money. Because I enjoy the game and me quitting won't make a lick of difference, because everyone else thinks the same way you do: "hasn't happened to me so it probably doesn't".

GG.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#368 - 2014-09-11 15:32:34 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

The core issue here is people getting banned for things they weren't involved in.


Here's the thing.

You (like everyone else posting) have no idea why the bans were done. You are simply speculating to push your agenda.

Mr Epeen Cool



Except in this case the nefarious 'agenda' is requesting CCP to inform us what is banworthy behavior, to institute a system of warnings instead of permanent bans for things that don't seem to be obvious EULA breaking behavior, and for these rules to be applied consistently.


We all have enough data to know that none of my 3 points is currently implemented.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#369 - 2014-09-11 15:36:26 UTC
The information we have so far from Ero on this latest round of bans is very disconcerting.

We will update as more information becomes available.

F

Would you like to know more?
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#370 - 2014-09-11 15:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
I must assume that here are a lot of griefer tears.
No one playing EvE at EvE's sake, is in any danger of being hit by the ban hammer.

The one who *are* afraid and crying or go "ggggrrr CCP", will have a reason to be afraid.

Those banned appear to have pushed the boundaries to far. Don't wanna be banned? Do not push the boundaries!
I can not understand how people still doubt the decision over this e1 guy and blame the blogger.
Hmm?
Where is the blogger this time?
No one around? Ok, lets diss CCP...

Yeah OK, you wanna play the bad guy, do that. But pushing the metagame to far, trying to optimise the fountain of tears, you might get hit.

The EvE Sandbox was meant to be a Space-Sandbox guy shoot at other guys.
Not guys humiliate other guys. Some guys need learn some decency.
Its quite clear that CCP dosnt want you to do things, that would you do to complete Strangers you meet at the street. Nothing of that crap would happen.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#371 - 2014-09-11 15:38:55 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

The core issue here is people getting banned for things they weren't involved in.


Here's the thing.

You (like everyone else posting) have no idea why the bans were done. You are simply speculating to push your agenda.

Mr Epeen Cool



Except in this case the nefarious 'agenda' is requesting CCP to inform us what is banworthy behavior, to institute a system of warnings instead of permanent bans for things that don't seem to be obvious EULA breaking behavior, and for these rules to be applied consistently.


We all have enough data to know that none of my 3 points is currently implemented.


Nope, not my agenda. The people willfully engaging in these behaviors were doing it even after another person was banned for it earlier in the year. The line was pretty clearly drawn. But what of the people idling in the channel? How many of you have loads of channels open at any given time? How would you feel if you were banned for something that had gone on in such a channel when you weren't even aware that it was taking place?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#372 - 2014-09-11 15:39:49 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
No one playing EvE at EvE's sake, is in any danger of being hit by the ban hammer.


I disagree & I have the knowledge to back that up.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#373 - 2014-09-11 15:40:35 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
I must assume that here are a lot of griefer tears.
No one playing EvE at EvE's sake, is in any danger of being hit by the ban hammer.




You are as much in the dark as we are in terms of what specific (note: I don't mean 'exact') rules are being applied to players who get banned.


You can make this statement with about as much certainty as a fellow carrying around a metal rod in a lightning storm.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#374 - 2014-09-11 15:40:50 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
The information we have so far from Ero on this latest round of bans is very disconcerting.

We will update as more information becomes available.


More griefer tears.
Any update will even be more and more griefer tears.
You and this ban hammer are the least of CCP's sorrows.
CCP will happily welcome a lot of WoW Bears in Exchange for you grief players. I would not miss you! SOV Wars in 0 Sec want miss you.
Well who else than this sorry little bunch of griefers will miss themselfes?

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#375 - 2014-09-11 15:40:53 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

The core issue here is people getting banned for things they weren't involved in.


Here's the thing.

You (like everyone else posting) have no idea why the bans were done. You are simply speculating to push your agenda.

Mr Epeen Cool



Except in this case the nefarious 'agenda' is requesting CCP to inform us what is banworthy behavior, to institute a system of warnings instead of permanent bans for things that don't seem to be obvious EULA breaking behavior, and for these rules to be applied consistently.


We all have enough data to know that none of my 3 points is currently implemented.


What actual outcome are you looking for? A compendium of everything that may or may not be said? What?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#376 - 2014-09-11 15:40:57 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

The core issue here is people getting banned for things they weren't involved in.


Here's the thing.

You (like everyone else posting) have no idea why the bans were done. You are simply speculating to push your agenda.

Mr Epeen Cool



Except in this case the nefarious 'agenda' is requesting CCP to inform us what is banworthy behavior, to institute a system of warnings instead of permanent bans for things that don't seem to be obvious EULA breaking behavior, and for these rules to be applied consistently.


We all have enough data to know that none of my 3 points is currently implemented.


I'm sorry, Sibyyl, but as much as I want to point out the error in your reasoning, I can't. Even in a virtual space game, it goes against my very essence to get in an argument with a seriously hot babe.

Mr Epeen Cool
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#377 - 2014-09-11 15:43:39 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:


What actual outcome are you looking for? A compendium of everything that may or may not be said? What?


Nobody is looking for a compedium. These options aren't binary:

0. Tell us nothing
1. Tell us everything


Nobody is asking to know everything, but I think it's fair as a player to ask what specific rules are being applied to bans. Currently, we are told that it's "whatever CCP wants this to be".

Do you not think that is too general? How is anybody supposed to adhere to a set of rules which *seem* pretty inconsistently applied and not documented by any official source anywhere..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#378 - 2014-09-11 15:46:13 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
The information we have so far from Ero on this latest round of bans is very disconcerting.

We will update as more information becomes available.


More griefer clickbaiting blogger tears.


Fixed that for you.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#379 - 2014-09-11 15:46:32 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
La Rynx wrote:
I must assume that here are a lot of griefer tears.
No one playing EvE at EvE's sake, is in any danger of being hit by the ban hammer.


You are as much in the dark as we are in terms of what specific (note: I don't mean 'exact') rules are being applied to players who get banned.

You can make this statement with about as much certainty as a fellow carrying around a metal rod in a lightning storm.


In the light of a flood of propaganda, your posts are based on FUD!
F ear
U n certainty
D oubt

Times change CCP adapts, so do you, or leave.
CCP leaves intentionaly no exact line, but expects to have some decency.
Seeing what was happening until now, i have noticed one thing:
CCP is not using the ban-hammer excessivly, so i am willing to assume, those bans where reasonable.

Whom do i trust more?
Griefers or CCP?

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#380 - 2014-09-11 15:48:51 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
If some of this is more "bonus room" related banning, apparently, the folks at CCP don't know what "real life harassment" is. Someone whose real name or personal information is unknown participating in a TS event being encouraged to make an ass out of them self for ISK is *not* IRL harassment.

CCP can't say who has been banned, but they should say why...I've played other MMOs where they will come out and say "X number of accounts were banned today for RMT/botting/hacking" or whatever. I disagree with CCP Falcon vehemently on his statement that it's not their job to define where the line is, especially in the game that celebrates and encourages all manner of asshattery. Obviously, they can't cover every possible scenario, as players have proven time and again they are more creative than developers, but when they see something they consider borderline or over the line, they should address it. It wouldn't be hard to send an in game email to everyone saying something like "X behavior has been brought to our attention. We do not find this to be acceptable behavior and future instances will be punsihed severely. You have been warned." What other game has ever had a marketing campaign similar to "Be the villain"? Is making them sing 3 songs OK, but 4 is harassment? Scamming someone out of billions is OK, unless it makes them feel bad? The mine field analogy has been made...well there's a damn sign where the mine field is, so that's is a pretty clear line not to cross.

EVE's new campaign: Be the villain.*
*unless you make someone mad, *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Disclaimer: I have never been involved in any "bonus room" activity, even as a listener...I find the whole concept childish.