These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Clara Pond
Never Not Snazzy
#341 - 2014-09-11 14:35:13 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Clara Pond wrote:
Dear people who don't understand satire: look up satire.


Surely such things have no place in the clean and open discussion that takes place on the EVE forums.


I think we've seen what humourless twats some people on this forum can be, so I thought it prudent to pre-empt the inevitable moral panic until I can transfer all my RMTed ISK off this account.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#342 - 2014-09-11 14:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Remiel Pollard wrote:
CCP the company is not being consistent with policy enforcement, in both the game and the forums. Maybe this hasn't affected you yet, so congratulations, but if you're standing here right now and arguing black and blue that CCP have done no wrong and their inconsistency does one day affect you, you ******* remember this day and how you only screwed yourself.

But don't blame Falcon. This is not on him. It's on the company as a whole.


Pointing out CCP hypocrisy is the sucker play. Tweet your indignation while continuing your subscription.

When you know they've got you over a barrel it's all about self preservation.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#343 - 2014-09-11 14:38:56 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
So players reported some/several/many/f* ton of bans. Any intel that some of them weren't for one more typical ban offenses? RMT, botting, etc etc This might have just been a convenient time to empty the bin.

Edit: Tracking enhancer engaged


Maybe, but they all seem to have been banned for "real-life harassment" with no clear link to any specific event. Many could have been peripherally involved in Erotica 1's bonus rooms, but not all it seems. It is still unclear.

https://imgur.com/EtfsmXj



The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#344 - 2014-09-11 14:40:06 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Kristalll wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
They stood next to the sign looking out at the long grass. Right next to them was a sign reading 'Danger, Minefield'

m



Okay, this analogy, while funny, is also GREATLY missing the mark.

This is more like a field, with no mines sign, that get advertised as a tourist destination that people have been playing in for years. And one day a few mines go off, and everyone is wondering where the edge of the minefield is so they can get out of it.


Well, where those mine went off is the edge ... most likely ... but not 100% so, try to stay a few more meters away.


we seem to be missing a line to indicate where the edge is.


Seriously? It's where the mines went off...
The ones that got trashed there? Poor bastards... but it was for a good cause... now, the rest of us should have an approximation of where the edge is Twisted
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#345 - 2014-09-11 14:42:49 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
So players reported some/several/many/f* ton of bans. Any intel that some of them weren't for one more typical ban offenses? RMT, botting, etc etc This might have just been a convenient time to empty the bin.

Edit: Tracking enhancer engaged


Maybe, but they all seem to have been banned for "real-life harassment" with no clear link to any specific event. Many could have been peripherally involved in Erotica 1's bonus rooms, but not all it seems. It is still unclear.

https://imgur.com/EtfsmXj





Thanks.

I guess no one thought that CCP might have gone undercover on this?
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#346 - 2014-09-11 14:49:03 UTC
God, not this again.

I do hope CCP is factoring in the disenfranchisement of its players into the protection-of-brand decisioning with these bans. You can't market 'sandbox', 'be the villian' and 'everything is fair game' while not publishing clear definitions of harassment.

Should I expect a ban anytime soon for this, because the victim raged so hard and was obviously in real life dispair?

Seriously, will that dude using racial epithets and counselling me to comitt suicide (twice) be banned?

I would like to register my angst at being harassed by this player, and am seeking space lawyer assistance from someone on the CSM willing to fill Ripard Teg's shoes in my quest for justice.

F

Would you like to know more?
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#347 - 2014-09-11 14:51:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Jin Kugu wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Well, you have two options then :)
1. leave now
2. try to find where the line is and CCP will make you leave.

In your place, i would choose 2. This will help out other players avoiding stepping on the same line Cool


Maybe these people should be banned for whatever happend vov

All I know is that ccp should be done with shady community management. Somer was handled clearly, why can't this be done in a similar fashion?

Instead we have CCP Falcon insulting people and mass indefinite bans without explanation.


Clearly? Clearly it took half a year to do it :)

By the way, is not Falcon handing the bans, writing the TOS/EULA/rules.. he is just the face put there in front of you to punch.



I actually don't think anyone should be getting riled up at Falcon for this. He has a tough job, stuck between us and CCP policy, and he has to strike a balance. On one hand, CCP pays him and on the other, we pay CCP. I personally don't hold **** against Falcon. I'm sure he's letting everyone blow off steam and thinking of how best to address the community the next chance he gets, I actually believe that and I'd bet on it.

But he is right smack bang between a rock and a hard place on this one because he has a heated community to deal with and has to stand in solidarity with the company at the same time. Me, I'm going to bed to get some sleep. I haven't been banned and don't intend to be so I really don't have a stake in this but make no mistake, CCP the company is not being consistent with policy enforcement, in both the game and the forums. Maybe this hasn't affected you yet, so congratulations, but if you're standing here right now and arguing black and blue that CCP have done no wrong and their inconsistency does one day affect you, you ******* remember this day and how you only screwed yourself.

But don't blame Falcon. This is not on him. It's on the company as a whole.


Oh, i know, definitely CCP is not consistent.
I hope i won't be on the wrong side of the fence because i will probably be f*** up and the chances of getting my account back are nil.

The only problem i have is with people who play stupid asking for that white line they can't cross.

We can see it in real life... there are thousands of lines and people still cross them every day hoping they won't be caught.
And when they are caught they play stupid... or argue the lines are too wide and they have no space to walk without crossing them.

If it doesn't work in real life, what makes you think it will work in a game?
If CCP will put down all the possible cases of what you are not allowed to do + whatever think they can happen in the future that might be detrimental to the game/community... how many will read them?
TOS and EULA are already too long and 90% of the people are not reading them anyway.

This is why CCP says to use your brain. If you have to think twice if something it's illegal then probably it is...
Dave Stark
#348 - 2014-09-11 14:51:38 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Kristalll wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
They stood next to the sign looking out at the long grass. Right next to them was a sign reading 'Danger, Minefield'

m



Okay, this analogy, while funny, is also GREATLY missing the mark.

This is more like a field, with no mines sign, that get advertised as a tourist destination that people have been playing in for years. And one day a few mines go off, and everyone is wondering where the edge of the minefield is so they can get out of it.


Well, where those mine went off is the edge ... most likely ... but not 100% so, try to stay a few more meters away.


we seem to be missing a line to indicate where the edge is.


Seriously? It's where the mines went off...
The ones that got trashed there? Poor bastards... but it was for a good cause... now, the rest of us should have an approximation of where the edge is Twisted


you mean the thing that went on for months and months despite petitions until teg....
oh **** it, we all know what happened.

if the edge is wherever some blogger decides, no wonder ccp don't want to draw a line. they're ccp not bloggers.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#349 - 2014-09-11 14:52:34 UTC
From a PR point of view, wouldn't it have been much wiser if CCP had contacted the CSM first and discussed those bans with them?
Banning for RMT or botting is one thing, but mass bans for misconduct in/out of game will always lead to controversy, so being more transparent at least to the CSM representatives could have avoided some of this shitstorm..

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#350 - 2014-09-11 14:53:30 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Seriously? It's where the mines went off...
The ones that got trashed there? Poor bastards... but it was for a good cause... now, the rest of us should have an approximation of where the edge is Twisted
Except nobody knows where the mines went off, because nobody saw them go off or has marked the approximate extent of the minefield for people to see.....

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#351 - 2014-09-11 14:54:33 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
CCP the company is not being consistent with policy enforcement, in both the game and the forums. Maybe this hasn't affected you yet, so congratulations, but if you're standing here right now and arguing black and blue that CCP have done no wrong and their inconsistency does one day affect you, you ******* remember this day and how you only screwed yourself.

But don't blame Falcon. This is not on him. It's on the company as a whole.


Pointing out CCP hypocrisy is the sucker play. Tweet your indignation while continuing your subscription.

When you know they've got you over a barrel it's all about self preservation.


I don't even know what your point is with this but it feels like projection. Indignation? You lost me.

Also, I don't use Twitter.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#352 - 2014-09-11 14:59:23 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Jin Kugu wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Well, you have two options then :)
1. leave now
2. try to find where the line is and CCP will make you leave.

In your place, i would choose 2. This will help out other players avoiding stepping on the same line Cool


Maybe these people should be banned for whatever happend vov

All I know is that ccp should be done with shady community management. Somer was handled clearly, why can't this be done in a similar fashion?

Instead we have CCP Falcon insulting people and mass indefinite bans without explanation.


Clearly? Clearly it took half a year to do it :)

By the way, is not Falcon handing the bans, writing the TOS/EULA/rules.. he is just the face put there in front of you to punch.



I actually don't think anyone should be getting riled up at Falcon for this. He has a tough job, stuck between us and CCP policy, and he has to strike a balance. On one hand, CCP pays him and on the other, we pay CCP. I personally don't hold **** against Falcon. I'm sure he's letting everyone blow off steam and thinking of how best to address the community the next chance he gets, I actually believe that and I'd bet on it.

But he is right smack bang between a rock and a hard place on this one because he has a heated community to deal with and has to stand in solidarity with the company at the same time. Me, I'm going to bed to get some sleep. I haven't been banned and don't intend to be so I really don't have a stake in this but make no mistake, CCP the company is not being consistent with policy enforcement, in both the game and the forums. Maybe this hasn't affected you yet, so congratulations, but if you're standing here right now and arguing black and blue that CCP have done no wrong and their inconsistency does one day affect you, you ******* remember this day and how you only screwed yourself.

But don't blame Falcon. This is not on him. It's on the company as a whole.


Oh, i know, definitely CCP is not consistent.
I hope i won't be on the wrong side of the fence because i will probably be f*** up and the chances of getting my account back are nil.

The only problem i have is with people who play stupid asking for that white line they can't cross.

We can see it in real life... there are thousands of lines and people still cross them every day hoping they won't be caught.
And when they are caught they play stupid... or argue the lines are too wide and they have no space to walk without crossing them.

If it doesn't work in real life, what makes you think it will work in a game?
If CCP will put down all the possible cases of what you are not allowed to do + whatever think they can happen in the future that might be detrimental to the game/community... how many will read them?
TOS and EULA are already too long and 90% of the people are not reading them anyway.

This is why CCP says to use your brain. If you have to think twice if something it's illegal then probably it is...


We are not villains in real life, but we are villains in EVE.

You wouldn't mug someone for giggles in real life. But in EVE I would shoot you for giggles.

I also wouldn't lure someone into my home to molest them and hear them scream, but in EVE, I love the sound of tears.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#353 - 2014-09-11 15:00:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
From a PR point of view, wouldn't it have been much wiser if CCP had contacted the CSM first and discussed those bans with them?
Banning for RMT or botting is one thing, but mass bans for misconduct in/out of game will always lead to controversy, so being more transparent at least to the CSM representatives could have avoided some of this shitstorm..


CCP are screwed no matter what they do. Release the info or not release it.

As for the CSM. It falls outside their mandate to be in the loop on out of game harassment. But even if they were told anything, I bet they've been NDAed up the wazoo about it and can't discuss it anyway.

Mr Epeen Cool
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#354 - 2014-09-11 15:06:22 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
CCP are screwed no matter what they do. Release the info or not release it.


The core issue here is people getting banned for things they weren't involved in. This has been happening more & more of late & it's something that CCP can fix by doing 3 things: Acknowledge that it's been happening, taking steps to rectify the problem & not continuing to do it in the future.

It's unfortunate that it's come to the point once again that they need to be publicly called out on an issue to fix it, but clamming up about such issues will always lead to this.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#355 - 2014-09-11 15:08:59 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
CCP are screwed no matter what they do. Release the info or not release it.


The core issue here is people getting banned for things they weren't involved in. This has been happening more & more of late & it's something that CCP can fix by doing 3 things: Acknowledge that it's been happening, taking steps to rectify the problem & not continuing to do it in the future.

It's unfortunate that it's come to the point once again that they need to be publicly called out on an issue to fix it, but clamming up about such issues will always lead to this.


This.

Which one of us is next?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#356 - 2014-09-11 15:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Mallak Azaria wrote:

The core issue here is people getting banned for things they weren't involved in.


Here's the thing.

You (like everyone else posting) have no idea why the bans were done. You are simply speculating to push your agenda.

Mr Epeen Cool
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#357 - 2014-09-11 15:11:16 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
CCP the company is not being consistent with policy enforcement, in both the game and the forums. Maybe this hasn't affected you yet, so congratulations, but if you're standing here right now and arguing black and blue that CCP have done no wrong and their inconsistency does one day affect you, you ******* remember this day and how you only screwed yourself.

But don't blame Falcon. This is not on him. It's on the company as a whole.


Pointing out CCP hypocrisy is the sucker play. Tweet your indignation while continuing your subscription.

When you know they've got you over a barrel it's all about self preservation.


I don't even know what your point is with this but it feels like projection. Indignation? You lost me.

Also, I don't use Twitter.


you got screwed by CCP.

What you gonna do about it?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#358 - 2014-09-11 15:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
CCP the company is not being consistent with policy enforcement, in both the game and the forums. Maybe this hasn't affected you yet, so congratulations, but if you're standing here right now and arguing black and blue that CCP have done no wrong and their inconsistency does one day affect you, you ******* remember this day and how you only screwed yourself.

But don't blame Falcon. This is not on him. It's on the company as a whole.


Pointing out CCP hypocrisy is the sucker play. Tweet your indignation while continuing your subscription.

When you know they've got you over a barrel it's all about self preservation.


I don't even know what your point is with this but it feels like projection. Indignation? You lost me.

Also, I don't use Twitter.


you got screwed by CCP.

What you gonna do about it?


Actually, I've already done it. I'm good. All sorted and taken care of and I'm better prepared for the next time it happens, if there is one. Are you trivialising the fact that there is a person currently playing the game that invades the private information of other players and threatens their families?

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#359 - 2014-09-11 15:13:01 UTC
We know that the people who were banned had GM messages that said that they were using the game for real-life harassment...

It sounds criminal.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#360 - 2014-09-11 15:14:49 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:

Oh, i know, definitely CCP is not consistent.
I hope i won't be on the wrong side of the fence because i will probably be f*** up and the chances of getting my account back are nil.

The only problem i have is with people who play stupid asking for that white line they can't cross.

We can see it in real life... there are thousands of lines and people still cross them every day hoping they won't be caught.
And when they are caught they play stupid... or argue the lines are too wide and they have no space to walk without crossing them.

If it doesn't work in real life, what makes you think it will work in a game?
If CCP will put down all the possible cases of what you are not allowed to do + whatever think they can happen in the future that might be detrimental to the game/community... how many will read them?
TOS and EULA are already too long and 90% of the people are not reading them anyway.

This is why CCP says to use your brain. If you have to think twice if something it's illegal then probably it is...


We are not villains in real life, but we are villains in EVE.

You wouldn't mug someone for giggles in real life. But in EVE I would shoot you for giggles.

I also wouldn't lure someone into my home to molest them and hear them scream, but in EVE, I love the sound of tears.


The point is... did you read the TOS and EULA from top to bottom when you registered?
Did you read them from top to bottom when they were updated (at least 2 times in the last years)?

Now, here, people complain they are not clear enough.
They want clear lines.
Possible with examples. The more examples the better.

Would you read something 50 times bigger than EULA?
Would you read it every few weeks when CCP declares something illegal and does updates?

You know, sometimes they do changes that are not in change log and, after a downtime, you find some ninja changes.

What if you will have to read that thing every morning because you know ... ninja changes?