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A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#301 - 2014-09-11 13:23:03 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:

And you have reported all these incidents to CCP? If not, please specify why.

You cannot argue double standards and vague enforcement if you don't do your part to make sure that those infractions are handled through CCP to make a better basis for larger incidents.


Yes. I watchlist them to see if they are still playing the game afterward.

Not one has been punished. Including the inveterate carebear jackass who doxxed me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#302 - 2014-09-11 13:26:14 UTC
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I play this game to ruin YOUR game.

Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress.

Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress.

Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game.


Okay, no problem



No body is arguing that singransom is not legit. However dragging this on for hours when its already over with all assets and ISK taken that is not legit. Stay within the game, get all assets and ISK of the Avatar and stop after that!
Its over then, you simply can not get more money - there is no point in going any further. Everything after that point is just exploiting the naive or weaker mind of the player behind the avatar without any possibility of gaining and advantage or ingameitem and does have nothing to do with the game anymore!


Slow down and breathe, then try again, this time with some spaces between your words.

Pay attention to the context of the response, and what I was responding to, then try to remember that I don't particularly care, I'm just highlighting the point that more clarity is required on what is and is not permissible.

Besides, the reason that scam worked so well was because just taking someone's money and running automatically gets you flagged as a scammer by everyone. If you can make a player believe he's gonna get it back, put pressure on him to quit trying and ultimately, get him to actually quit trying, you can't say you got scammed because you were the one who quit the game and gave up instead of moving forward to try to find out if you could get it back.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#303 - 2014-09-11 13:29:30 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Clara Pond wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
[quote=voetius]People asking for a strict definition of "real-life harassment" are asking for the impossible in my opinion.


A definition isn't required. The person should get a one month ban with a clear explanation of the behaviour that was considered unacceptable. If they are unapologetically recalcitrant, then go for the permaban. That's how fair, grownup communities work.


If CCP would have just come out and said it wasn't allowed to begin with, there wouldn't be a need to ban them for a month.


They told you to use your brain... Use it if you have one.
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#304 - 2014-09-11 13:30:16 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
They stood next to the sign looking out at the long grass. Right next to them was a sign reading 'Danger, Minefield'

m



Okay, this analogy, while funny, is also GREATLY missing the mark.

This is more like a field, with no mines sign, that get advertised as a tourist destination that people have been playing in for years. And one day a few mines go off, and everyone is wondering where the edge of the minefield is so they can get out of it.

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#305 - 2014-09-11 13:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:

And you have reported all these incidents to CCP? If not, please specify why.

You cannot argue double standards and vague enforcement if you don't do your part to make sure that those infractions are handled through CCP to make a better basis for larger incidents.


Yes. I watchlist them to see if they are still playing the game afterward.

Not one has been punished. Including the inveterate carebear jackass who doxxed me.


And you know that they haven't received a warning or a temporary ban because you have access to the GM system?

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
FleetWarp Ichoriya
#306 - 2014-09-11 13:33:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:

No body is arguing that singransom is not legit.


Mira Robinson just did.

Why does your side feel compelled to lie about literally everything?


No she just told you how to be 100% sure that there will be no RL harassment.
It doesnt cross this out though

Nothing sweeter than tears of tearcollectors. mhh yummy!
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#307 - 2014-09-11 13:35:16 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
'Real life' harassment can't even occur unless you know who the hell is on the other side of the EVE account.

Anything that occurred between Ero 1 and Sohkar happened behind the veil of internet anonymity - by definition 'not real life'.



Your statement is technically correct, but griefing isn't limited to 'real life' harassment. There are plenty of things that would constitute griefing that has nothing to do with either player's RL identity.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Solecist Project
#308 - 2014-09-11 13:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I keep reading and reading ... and most is crap.
Most people only have their own narrow viewpoint,
instead of actually looking at the issue as a whole.

The most balanced solution would be to simply ban all those
who refuse to learn that standing for a specific viewpoint
is the least intelligent of all possibilities.

The next step: Forum warnings for people who keep creating bait ...
... and those who deliberately eat the bait and somehow think thsy can be superior
to a troll who manipulates them, creating pages after pages of nonsense.

You know who you are and you are easily spottable.


BOOM!

Suddenly, all the actually intelligent people would stop lurking
and actually start communicating, instead of staying lurkers
because of all the mindless forum zombies who have no conscious thoughts in their minds left.


And I am seriously glad I ripped a specific person away from the hate you people infect everyone with.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dave Stark
#309 - 2014-09-11 13:38:34 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Clara Pond wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
[quote=voetius]People asking for a strict definition of "real-life harassment" are asking for the impossible in my opinion.


A definition isn't required. The person should get a one month ban with a clear explanation of the behaviour that was considered unacceptable. If they are unapologetically recalcitrant, then go for the permaban. That's how fair, grownup communities work.


If CCP would have just come out and said it wasn't allowed to begin with, there wouldn't be a need to ban them for a month.


They told you to use your brain... Use it if you have one.


we did; in any situation where you're unsure of something, you ask for clarification.
we prompty got told "lol no".
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2014-09-11 13:41:00 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


If CCP would have just come out and said it wasn't allowed to begin with, there wouldn't be a need to ban them for a month.


They told you to use your brain... Use it if you have one.


If you have a set of guidelines from CCP that go into any detail (at all) about the kind of behavior that can expect a ban, then go ahead and share it with us. The reason for the discussion in this thread is that:

1. There seems to be a set of rules CCP is operating with that are not clear to the players
2. These rules appear to be inconsistently applied
3. There doesn't seem to be any kind of built in warning system for players being blind to #1.


Players have to operate along extremely ambiguous terms and then are punished when they can't figure out what the boundaries or expectations of those terms are.

What's worse is that public CCP statements on this forum appear to endorse the sort of behavior these players are banned for.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
FleetWarp Ichoriya
#311 - 2014-09-11 13:41:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

we did; in any situation where you're unsure of something, you ask for clarification.
we prompty got told "lol no".


So you could say CCP used their brain and you we're unsure and asked for clarification but they said from the beginning 'lol,no - use your brain and human decency"

Nothing sweeter than tears of tearcollectors. mhh yummy!
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#312 - 2014-09-11 13:43:53 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Cut and dried, that's all we have to say on the matter.
Thats probably why Eve has these issues. If you have rules, they should be clear to everyone. Ignoring this wont fix the big problem. Unclear rules give random actions.



Could not sum this up better.
We don't want a line drawn, we just need to know what definition of said line is.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2014-09-11 13:44:36 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I play this game to ruin YOUR game.

Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress.

Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress.

Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game.



Don't know what kind of EVE you play, but EVE voice isn't the best voice comms interface and not everything can be accomplished by typing furiously in a tiny chat window and sharing imgur links.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#314 - 2014-09-11 13:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
can't we just suicide gank and scream on each other's teamspeak without victimizing anyone in real life?

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
FleetWarp Ichoriya
#315 - 2014-09-11 13:48:10 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:


Don't know what kind of EVE you play, but EVE voice isn't the best voice comms interface and not everything can be accomplished by typing furiously in a tiny chat window and sharing imgur links.



I don't know why you are hanging up on that statement?
She's just stating that if you dont lure your victim onto a TS you can't be penealized for it. She never ever stated that you should not use TS. Thats an important point you and your friends try to...well..'overlook'...

Nothing sweeter than tears of tearcollectors. mhh yummy!
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#316 - 2014-09-11 13:50:37 UTC
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

we did; in any situation where you're unsure of something, you ask for clarification.
we prompty got told "lol no".


So you could say CCP used their brain and you we're unsure and asked for clarification but they said from the beginning 'lol,no - use your brain and human decency"



Except no, CCP has not done so. Human decency standards absolutely apply, but we have to mitigate enforcement of decency at all costs vs. the gameplay in EVE which encourages you to be the villain, be part of a harsh and unforgiving universe and so on.


At some point you start destroying everything EVE is marketed to be in order to protect RL feelings that people seem to have for possessions that are essentially fake and have no significant RL value (Sohkar's entire "fortune" was worth about $30, or less than an hour of RL work in my case).

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Dave Stark
#317 - 2014-09-11 13:50:53 UTC
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

we did; in any situation where you're unsure of something, you ask for clarification.
we prompty got told "lol no".


So you could say CCP used their brain and you we're unsure and asked for clarification but they said from the beginning 'lol,no - use your brain and human decency"


no, i couldn't say that. not with a straight face.
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#318 - 2014-09-11 13:52:56 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Then perhaps CCP should be more forthcoming with why they were actually banned as opposed to copy & pasting the same reason in to each box. Take pride in your work.


Aren't they forthcoming enough?

The TOS and EULA can be explain in a few lines but because people are nitpicking or are dumb (my guess is the 2nd option) they made it on 50 pages almost nobody reads...

The tl/dr version:

This is my box and my sand. If you want a shovel to go in and play, it will cost $15/month (subject to change at any time)
You should be aware that at any moment you can be invited out for no reason at all.

Do you accept?

Yes/No
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#319 - 2014-09-11 13:53:35 UTC
I hardly expect CCP to clarify this any further, not because they believe people will simply dance on the edge of the line, but because they simply don't have a line drawn and enforcement is absolutely down to the whims of whatever GM handles a given case.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
FleetWarp Ichoriya
#320 - 2014-09-11 13:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: FleetWarp Ichoriya
Sibyyl wrote:

At some point you start destroying everything EVE is marketed to be in order to protect RL feelings that people seem to have for possessions that are essentially fake and have no significant RL value (Sohkar's entire "fortune" was worth about $30, or less than an hour of RL work in my case).


Thats fine for you if you can afford it that good. Some other people don't. Some people can advance very slowly in game due to other parts of their life. For whatever reason, it doesnt matter if he had 30b ISK or 3m ISK. It has a value to him and afterall its not about the crappy scam he fell for. I thought I'd already stated. Its about tormenting him for hours when there were no money and no assets to scam anymore - literally! It was just a game messing with someone's head for no apparrent reason but for the lols not even remotely related to the game.


Dave Stark wrote:

no, i couldn't say that. not with a straight face.


that is sad.

Nothing sweeter than tears of tearcollectors. mhh yummy!