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Dodging Wardecs

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Solecist Project
#1181 - 2014-09-19 23:31:16 UTC
*points at Veers for being a coward who doesn't dare deccing a -10*


And now he just stops posting.... (:
.... as if that helped anything.... :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Anslo
Scope Works
#1182 - 2014-09-19 23:48:57 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Veers the Coward wrote:
Lots of bullshit


Coward...

Let me make this clear for you ...

You dec me ...
... try to fight me solo ...
... and I will whip the imaginary space floor with your candy ass ........


*points at Veers*

Watch it Sol.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Neven Cengari
Perkone
Caldari State
#1183 - 2014-09-19 23:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Neven Cengari
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
When did Drago Shouna become a GM?

Seriously? Being obtuse on purpose is the best you can do?

Fine, let's go through the motions. Drago Shouna is not a GM, nor have I ever implied he was. But he did petition CCP on the matter and posted the answer he received (hence post #586).

What's next? Are you going to suggest he's lying? It's possible I suppose but I find it highly unlikely under the circumstances.
Solecist Project
#1184 - 2014-09-19 23:55:46 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Veers the Coward wrote:
Lots of bullshit


Coward...

Let me make this clear for you ...

You dec me ...
... try to fight me solo ...
... and I will whip the imaginary space floor with your candy ass ........


*points at Veers*

Watch it Sol.


Else what, spit?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Anslo
Scope Works
#1185 - 2014-09-19 23:56:43 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Veers the Coward wrote:
Lots of bullshit


Coward...

Let me make this clear for you ...

You dec me ...
... try to fight me solo ...
... and I will whip the imaginary space floor with your candy ass ........


*points at Veers*

Watch it Sol.


Else what, spit?

You should know veers might not do something.

But I will.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1186 - 2014-09-19 23:59:01 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Veers the Coward wrote:
Lots of bullshit


Coward...

Let me make this clear for you ...

You dec me ...
... try to fight me solo ...
... and I will whip the imaginary space floor with your candy ass ........


*points at Veers*

Watch it Sol.


Else what, spit?

You should know veers might not do something.

But I will.


Wait, how's it go again?

Take it to the diplo.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Anslo
Scope Works
#1187 - 2014-09-20 00:00:51 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Wait, how's it go again?

Take it to the diplo.

Talk to the diplo. Lol you're a fan?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Solecist Project
#1188 - 2014-09-20 00:01:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Anslo wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Veers the Coward wrote:
Lots of bullshit


Coward...

Let me make this clear for you ...

You dec me ...
... try to fight me solo ...
... and I will whip the imaginary space floor with your candy ass ........


*points at Veers*

Watch it Sol.


Else what, spit?

You should know veers might not do something.

But I will.

LOL!

Oh boy I am so scared ...
... because obviously I am not used to being KOS anyway, right?


Feel free to dec me ...
... or will you argue you don't need because I'm -10?

Naaahh that would make you look like a coward ...
... and you are such a stroooong man, right?

Remiel was right... you aren't worth spit.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#1189 - 2014-09-20 00:03:19 UTC
Tell you what ...
... do whatever you want ...

... it doesn't matter. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1190 - 2014-09-20 00:04:06 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Wait, how's it go again?

Take it to the diplo.

Talk to the diplo. Lol you're a fan?


Not really, saw it in passing.

I'm too busy to be a fan - all that standing in one place and blowing you all day would interfere with my schedule.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Anslo
Scope Works
#1191 - 2014-09-20 00:04:42 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:


Remiel was right... you aren't worth spit.

Kk

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Solecist Project
#1192 - 2014-09-20 00:06:40 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:


Remiel was right... you aren't worth spit.

Kk

Stroooong, proud man ...

... dec me ...

... your 57 man corp .....


Bring it ... :)

Or are you too scared to dec me? (:

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1193 - 2014-09-20 02:34:24 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Xuixien wrote:

you keep throwing this word "harassment" around. while deccing might be considered harassment by some dictionary definitions, it is in no way harassment by any judiciary meaning of the word.

no one is really advocating harassing other players, or even really making it easier to do so. all we're advocating is a meaningful consequence to dodging out of pvp. right now there is no such consequence. you are literally whining about the idea that you cant dodge pvp costfree.

in the past, dodging wardecs was often considered a bannable exploit, but repeatedly deccing a corp was never considered harassment. something to chew on.


A war-dec is not harassment, but people were using the old system for that purpose.

It's why we have the system we have now.


But CCP have already said with the present system, that dodging war-decs is a legitimate tactic, so complain away if you must. But they did change it for a reason, so it's unlikely they will change it back.


AHEM, as i said it is not harassment by any judiciary sense of the word, even if you dec the same one man corp for two years

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1194 - 2014-09-20 02:37:47 UTC
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hiply Rustic wrote:


It's not nonsense. Someone leaving a corp, or the corp folding, in no way prevents non-consensual PvP. In Hisec all it does is prevent one method for having consequence-free non-consensual PvP, something that was never promised to anyone in Hisec, anywhere, ever.


Who other than you said anyting about non-consensual pvp. I don't care if anyone fights or dies, I'm saying the zero consequence mechanic is dumb.

A player corp should have to deal with a war situation in some fashion that has potential costs. The way it is now, a small player corp doesn't have to deal with a war, just drop, fold, reform. It literally takes a couple minutes. Such a thing isn't in keeping with the spirit of EVE.



A wardec is non-consensual PvP. Sorry, too obvious? Everyone in this thread is talking about non-consensual PvP, Jenn. Yourself included.


You're conflating issues in order to make what you think make sense in your own head. That's the only place it makes sense btw lol.

The issue for me isn't the pvp aspect. I've dodged pvp under war decs. I was soooo funny seeing that Marmite dude complain in local about my Stabbed machariel getting away from him gate after gate between Jita and Amarr (I told him "shoulda brought a hictor, Hoe" lol).

But what I did came with the potential for failure (in that case, ship destruction). The potential for failure is one of the things that makes a thing balanced in a video game. You can NEVER fail to fold and reform a corporation. That's what makes the mechanic lame.


Right...so then

Wardecs are not the mechanic for having consequence-free non-consensual PvP in Hisec? And making it harder to force non-consensual PvPers to face consequences in Hisec isn't what the requests to change the current mechanic will result in?

I don't, by the way, disagree that if someone closes down a corporation they should not be up and running with the same name and ticker five minutes later (how you're going to enforce that, short of keeping a list of corporate names that can never be used again is beyond me...but it wouldn't bother me either). I do disagree with the people advocating for a change being made to the fundamental mechanics of either leaving or disbanding a corp.

If it's Killyouall's right to put a wardec on Notgonnahappen because sandbox, then it's Notgonnahappen's right to fold their tents because sandbox.



pvp is never without consequence. in hisec, with no real assets at stake, the consequences of pvp ar ship loss and possibly pod loss. the deccers face the same consequences as the people they declare war on. the attackers may have the initiatve, but the defenders have the advantage of surprise.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1195 - 2014-09-20 02:52:42 UTC
Roushar Prhizer wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I see 55 pages of back and forth, without addressing the simplest issue here:

What is to prevent the target from docking up for a week and playing on alts? Please explain how your mechanic change prevents this solution?



Its a joke. I told them exactly what their problem was. But because they don't like the answer, its deny, deflect, and red herring.


They war dec a corp, the threat is great enough and the cost small enough for them to reform into a new corp. So they do so. People come here and want to arbitrarily increase the costs of a basic function of the game so they do not have to change how they play (because apparently what they do it just fine, but what others do it not - go figure).


As I have said before. If you stopped targeting corporations whose costs to disband and reform were not so low. You would not have this issue. You are not entitled to think that the ability to declare war is a the ability to guarantee conflict, just as its not a guarantee to avoid conflict by joining a NPC corporation.

Its very easy as I have said before. You don't' see large corporations do this because the costs to disband and reform is too high. You don't see corporations with much in the way of space assets do this, the cost is too high. But you WILL see this if you dec corps of 4 guys with their 3 alts a piece mining.


bad argument is bad.w a corp costs nothing to close and the same amount of isk tocreate regardless of how many assets it will have. poses cost nothing to unanchor and reanchor except trivial time (you dont need to an ho defenses if youre just gonna pull the tower every time youet decd), most pocos are owned by holding corps and just get xferred... pos and pocos are the only real assets a corp has, except say standings, but those will come back anyway as ghey are stupidly derived from a composite of preexisting member standings and not anything the corp actually did after forming.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1196 - 2014-09-20 02:56:37 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Aivo Dresden wrote:

[And this is where you're wrong. People get to play in the sandbox however they want. No party is more entitled to a play style than another.


No they don't. You don't get to play how you want. You get to play how you EARN. You get to do what you want when you are smart enoguh to overcome opposition. A sandbox game doesn't mean you get to do what you want, it means EVERYONE gets to do what they want, and some people want to shut you down.

As it is now, people can either hide from consequences in an npc corp OR make a small "npc corp deluxe" small corp (all the NPC dec dodging, none of the NPC corp taxes) that they can just fold and reform.

What should happen is that NPC corps are an option, but a poor one, and ANY player corp is subject to counters by other player corps that should necessitate actual creativity on the part of the smaller/weaker corp to avoid/mitigate (like getting or buying friends, somehow going 'guerrilla' on the bigger corp, getting bigger/stronger itself or something else).

People who can't see the problem with the current status quo have a problem with honesty.

There is no earn. My entitlement to play this game how I want comes when I pay my sub. When you pay my sub then you can tell me how to play my game.


wrong. everything you do in eve you have to earn. want to fly a hulk? gotta earn the isk for it, and the skills. want to hold sov? gotta earn it,ccp isnt gonna give it to yu cuz you paid a sub. want to avoid pvp? you gotta earn that too.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1197 - 2014-09-20 03:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Trixie Lawless
Xuixien wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Aivo Dresden wrote:

[And this is where you're wrong. People get to play in the sandbox however they want. No party is more entitled to a play style than another.


No they don't. You don't get to play how you want. You get to play how you EARN. You get to do what you want when you are smart enoguh to overcome opposition. A sandbox game doesn't mean you get to do what you want, it means EVERYONE gets to do what they want, and some people want to shut you down.

As it is now, people can either hide from consequences in an npc corp OR make a small "npc corp deluxe" small corp (all the NPC dec dodging, none of the NPC corp taxes) that they can just fold and reform.

What should happen is that NPC corps are an option, but a poor one, and ANY player corp is subject to counters by other player corps that should necessitate actual creativity on the part of the smaller/weaker corp to avoid/mitigate (like getting or buying friends, somehow going 'guerrilla' on the bigger corp, getting bigger/stronger itself or something else).

People who can't see the problem with the current status quo have a problem with honesty.

There is no earn. My entitlement to play this game how I want comes when I pay my sub. When you pay my sub then you can tell me how to play my game.


wrong. everything you do in eve you have to earn. want to fly a hulk? gotta earn the isk for it, and the skills. want to hold sov? gotta earn it,ccp isnt gonna give it to yu cuz you paid a sub. want to avoid pvp? you gotta earn that too.



He may have to earn the isk to buy the ship and the skills, but he doesn't have to earn the right to avoid PvP. He can just choose to. There's no initiationn process or secret PvE handshake that he has to go through to earn that right...it's just there. Just like you have the right to try and blow him up. Can't achieve that right by a wardec? Gank him. Gank him repeatedly for all anyone cares. But there is no "earning" that. it's just there.

The "earning" argument can be turned right back around on you. What have you done to earn the right to force him into accepting that wardec? Paying your 15 a month?

It's a video game, not something that people need to turn red in the face about and type super hard. If you are that emotionally invested in it, then you need to take a step back and take a long look at yourself.
Kaely Tanniss
The Conference Council
The Conference
#1198 - 2014-09-20 03:15:16 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Aivo Dresden wrote:

[And this is where you're wrong. People get to play in the sandbox however they want. No party is more entitled to a play style than another.


No they don't. You don't get to play how you want. You get to play how you EARN. You get to do what you want when you are smart enoguh to overcome opposition. A sandbox game doesn't mean you get to do what you want, it means EVERYONE gets to do what they want, and some people want to shut you down.

As it is now, people can either hide from consequences in an npc corp OR make a small "npc corp deluxe" small corp (all the NPC dec dodging, none of the NPC corp taxes) that they can just fold and reform.

What should happen is that NPC corps are an option, but a poor one, and ANY player corp is subject to counters by other player corps that should necessitate actual creativity on the part of the smaller/weaker corp to avoid/mitigate (like getting or buying friends, somehow going 'guerrilla' on the bigger corp, getting bigger/stronger itself or something else).

People who can't see the problem with the current status quo have a problem with honesty.

There is no earn. My entitlement to play this game how I want comes when I pay my sub. When you pay my sub then you can tell me how to play my game.


wrong. everything you do in eve you have to earn. want to fly a hulk? gotta earn the isk for it, and the skills. want to hold sov? gotta earn it,ccp isnt gonna give it to yu cuz you paid a sub. want to avoid pvp? you gotta earn that too.


Agreed. Frankly, I'm surprised this thread is still open. It's obviously a hot topic for both sides of the fence. It's been quite interesting to see where this thread has gone.

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1199 - 2014-09-20 03:36:05 UTC
Trixie Lawless wrote:


It's a video game, not something that people need to turn red in the face about and type super hard. If you are that emotionally invested in it, then you need to take a step back and take a long look at yourself.


Roll

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1200 - 2014-09-20 03:41:09 UTC
Trixie Lawless wrote:
He may have to earn the isk to buy the ship and the skills, but he doesn't have to earn the right to avoid PvP. He can just choose to. There's no initiationn process or secret PvE handshake that he has to go through to earn that right...it's just there.


I disagree. You have no "right" to avoid PVP in a game, the main focusw and premise of which is non-consensual PVP, even if it is also a "sandbox."

Quote:

Just like you have the right to try and blow him up. Can't achieve that right by a wardec? Gank him. Gank him repeatedly for all anyone cares. But there is no "earning" that. it's just there.


Gank him enough times and get busted for "harassment."

Quote:

The "earning" argument can be turned right back around on you. What have you done to earn the right to force him into accepting that wardec? Paying your 15 a month?


Damn right. Paying $15 a month with the expectation of the game and rules as advertised. It's just that so far CCP is allowing people to circumvent the rules with the corp flipping, likely because they dont have a good solution to it as of now, and of ourse there's the allmighty dollar in the equation, which is why ISboxing is allowed. And if we allow aggressors to REALLY get to go to war if hisec, the precious ISboxers would soon unsub their 15 accounts each.

They threw us a little bone by saying that if you corp-flipped "reapeatedly" you would draw the attention of the GM's for whatever that means. So I suppose if you really really wanted to you could keep deccing the guy's new corps until he finally gets a warning for flipping toomany times? idk.

Quote:

It's a video game, not something that people need to turn red in the face about and type super hard. If you are that emotionally invested in it, then you need to take a step back and take a long look at yourself.


Agreed. Nothing wrong with calling "bullshit" when you see it, though.

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project