EVE General Discussion

Wow..this thread is still open. I thought for sure it would have been locked by now. So much of it has gone so off topic.

Oh now, stop that.





Well, you have managed to flabbergast me, sir.
*head explodes*

This is true and good and right

Dropping corp isnt truly avoidance because you can still be violenced

The best avoidance tactics dont involve dropping corp at all.

I think the solution is not in fiddling with the corp mechanics and what not but providing non pvp oriented players more tools for winning the wardeck and also giving incentives for winning the wardeck.

First, tools :
Direct mechanics for mercenary occupation, maybe something akin to the bounty office.
Maybe even mercenary npc corporations, where npc-s defend you from players if you pay ( or are at least a small nuisance to attackers ).
And also the ability for player mercenary corps to enlist npc ships as help, for a really hefty price, offcourse.
( that way 5 man corp could have some chance , if they play it right against 60 man corp, using npc ships as cannon fodder and having specifically fitted ships for hit and run strikes or something )
And standings with specific corps ( imperial navy, republic fleed, federation navy... etc ) could come into play on the ability to recruit npc-s.
But i digress, its not about npc-s, thats a filler, its about making easier for merc corps to put themsleves out there on the market and for non pvp oriented corps to hire adequate protection when in need.
Sucsessfull mercs could even get some reward from the game ( LP points or something ) if they are in "the mercenary game system" ( not doing merc work based on spoken word alone like now ).
Now if a player corp does not do pvp it is presumable that they earn a lot of isk in industry or missions, so they should be able to aford mercenaries, and teh introduction of more specific game system with added rewards for merc will bring the price of mercs down while players in mercenary bussines effectively earn the same.

If a player corp that does not do pvp has no money for simple mercenaries than that corp fails at something in non pve as well and let them disband and create a corp forever in their misery, there will always be lousy players and corps.

Second, incentives :
Why would a corp want to win a war deck at all, then to defend dhemselves and their assets.
When someone has a POS or assets like that it is self evident why they want to defend the corp, assets and even hire mercenaries.
But what with corp with no assets ?
Maybe a reward for winning a wardeck could be introduced, maybe to raise the cost by 150% ( 150M ) and that a fixed amount ( some skills could be introduced here in corporation managment skill set ) of precentage is awarded to the winner.
For example two thirds with skill at max, so the cost stays 50 M as now, if you win the war you created, if not tha the corp you decked gets 100 M.
Also some rewards from CONCORD ( LP. .again ? )... could be gained by sucsessfull defense against a wardeck or something like that.

That are just crude examples, but i believe that the soulution is in creating more incentives to win a war other than obvious.

TL:DR:
In player corps, players themselves give incentives and content for others to join, that should not be meddled with.
When corp has assets in space there is incentive to defend from a wardeck.
When a corp has no assets in space, currently there is no incentive to defend yourself, stay in the corp, win a wardeck or undock for a week for all intents and purposes.
And yes, not everybody pvp-s, but there are plenty of people who do and would be cool if they could have that as a game mechanic accepted profession and to earn isk and stuff by it to replace ships and equipment.
By that you shoot two birds with one stone, giving non pvp-ers easier and more accesable means to defend themselves, and giving more opportunities to players.

I'm pretty sure the semantics here have been butchered, but there was a point at one time...

If Bobcorp is properly prepared and designed, within the current mechanics, then GrrrCorp will never be able to embroil Bobcorp into a profitable wardec. Grrrcorp needs to HTFU because complaining to CCP to make it easier to pin Bobcorp down serves no real purpose, unless that purpose is to perhaps harass a single player or two. Fundamentally, this is what the Grrrcorp faction are actually asking for.

If Bobcorp was an intelligently designed corporate structure, one that really isn't losing anything from a drop/reform, why is this CCP's problem? If you waste your isk targeting shell corporations, then you deserve to lose that isk, plain and simple. CCP has made it clear that player freedom is > than corporate 'responsibility' in pretty much all ways. It has been made clear that this applies to wardecs in particular. It is almost as if CCP intends Wardecs to require some thought on the part of the aggressor, that it may be a case of CCP intending Wardecs to not be thrown about, without consequence.

Perhaps it is a problem of target selection after all.

I think HTFU goes somewhere around here...

Uh yes, I do.

Buddy, you are crying on the forum because a tiny insignificant corp can avoid you using a mechanic when you try to bully them out of isk, purely because they are small enough to do so. Your target selection methods are flawed, and rather than just rethink your approach you'd rather whine on the forum for CCP to save you. HTFU is the absolute perfect response to that.

Or do you think because you are trying to shoot/extort people and not grinding rocks or red crosses that you are somehow entitled to cry over things you think are too difficult?

What makes it weirder is this:So your issue isn't even that you tried to fight a little guy and he ran away, but that you've thought that in theory someone might run away in this way. You are also assuming that if they couldn't reform the corp to run away, that they would either pay or fight. Newsflash buddy, neither is likely to happen. Hundreds of corps avoid wardecs in other ways all the time, so they would simply adapt another method. There is nothing to gain from this.

Good post, +1

Maybe we are down to arguing semantics. HTFU to me means"get tough, man up." The way I see it, if a corp disbands to avoid a wardec then they are the ones who need to HTFU, not the aggressors. I concede that in the end it may well boil down to smart target selection, but HTFU doesnt seem to cover that, at least in my understanding of the term. No matter how "hard" you are or are not doesnt seem to come into play when making a decision as to who to target and who not to.

That said, during my years as a slimeball mortgage broker (which is really just a glorified salesman who's selling money) I used what I called the shotgun approach. Call every single person that has ever done business with us in the past. Call everyone in the state who is 2-3 years into a Chapter 13 bankruptcy and offer to pay it off for them. I found that just talking to everyone was actually a more productive use of my time than analyzing each file to see if they were worth contacting and pitching.

And so, this is how my approach to target selection would be. Like I said earlier in this thread, if you consistently fling poo at the wall, eventually one of those turds will stick. It's the law of averages. Going for every single potential client/victim actually works a lot quicker than doing too much analysis before even trying to seal the deal.

Wall of Text Crits YOU for OVER 9000!
(sorry)

Hang on. Did you just say..........

You are willing to tell people to run and hide....... Then go on to tell someone else to HTFU?

Double standards at it's absolute finest.

For tiny one and 2 man corps it is. If it were to be removed, it would no longer be the best option, but other options would still exist. For any corp with anything to protect, other options are already what they use.

How is that double standards? A carebear who carebears every single day, then gets blown up, accepts it and moves on, he doesn't need to HTFU. A ganker who ganks every day, finds a handful of people who can avoid him then comes on the forum whining that CCP need to change the system so he has an easier time ganking, yes, he needs to HTFU.

It has nothing to do with how you choose to play, it has to do with how much you whine about it when you don't get what you want.