Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Please post with your main and not with an NPC corp forum alt when saying that NPC corps are toxic for the game.

Additionally, your suggestion will only lead to incursion-runners forming one-man corporations in order to keep their payouts and still be impractical to wardec.

Welcome to EVE, a PvP-centric game where everything is built around PvP! You may be playing the wrong game.

I hear Scam Citizen and Elite: Dangerous have PvE-only modes. Why don't you go play those and bugger off from our cutthroat savagery-game?

The reply from CCP - and virtually all the humans of EVE (I made that distinction deliberately, see if you can figure out why) - would be "if you aren't willing to do something about it, then that's just tough luck for you. HTFU or GTFO."

Only because someone hasn't decided to mess with your "happy PvE life". See how quickly it evaporates when someone takes an interest in perma-deccing you, camping you into your station and (if you permanently drop to NPC corp) suicide ganking you out of the sky whenever they see you.

The only reason you can have your PvE life is because some PvPer has decided to allow you to have it.

Nobody is preventing anyone from engaging in Incursion PvE. They're simply engaging different incursion sites than you, clearing incursions faster than you and only leaving you the low/null incursions to run. You want CCP to intervene and stop people from running incursions differently than you do? What a pathetic joke.

This self-entitled "but mah farmin moneez is bee-eeng threttenned!!!1!1one" is why highsec incursions need to have their payouts slashed. You fat and greedy incursionbears are a cancer, a plague and worse than turning EVE free-to-play.

You cannot actually avoid PvP. Avoiding Ganking, Mining, Mission Running, Trade, Industry, etc are all fundamentally PvP activities. Which is fitting, because EVE online is fundamentally a PvP game (as it states in the Newbie Guide that CCP wrote).

You may not want to engage in PvP with lasers and such, and that is perfectly fine and a valid choice. It is, however a choice and thus has consequences, including hamstringing you in your ability to respond to the actions of others.



How is the fact that player actions have consequences on other players a problem in a Massively Multiplayer Sandbox PvP game?

EVE is, in fact, entirely based on the idea that players can interfere with other players in any way they see fit. See CODE bumping miners, MinLuv ganking freighters, m0o organizing a massive long running gatecamp in HS, zombies smartbombing Yulai, E-Bank, Titans4U, Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, AWOXing, Safaris, Market Manipulation, and on and on and on and on.

And Spite is a perfectly valid reason (just as any reason (or no reason at all) is valid) to do any of these things.

If you don't want to risk having someone else interrupt your play, EVE is not the game for you. Full Stop.
This isn't a bad thing, mind you. There are tons of games that I don't enjoy, and that's fine. I don't insist on playing them and whine when they're not the game I want to play; I go and actually play the game I want to play.

Actually, this thread is still very much on track from where it started.

Veers Belvar sometimes I laugh so hard at your statements that I fall out of my chair.
You want CCP to step in and stop one group of players because they are ruining your gaming experience, yet the very presence of the incursion and you incursion ISK farmers is ruining the game play of an entirely different group of people. My dictionary defines this behavior as this hypocrisy. I will agree that as incursion farmers you do not have as many options as the locals do but that does not change the fact that many of your posts very hypocritical.


"Incursions are new player friendly. The base fittings are easily achievable by someone with 2-3 months in the game. "
And this one
"I often see new incursion runners in stripped down maelstroms and hyperions (total cost for hull + fit 300 mil or so). It's hardly some elitist activity like flying capital ships or something."
For many players in the 2-3 months age range 300 million ISK is an extremely large sum of ISK to gather, and those who do usually have much of it given to them, or they buy plexes for cash and then sell them for ISK. If you spent more time with these new players and less time in your ivory tower ISK farming Incursion fleets you might have understood this basic fact about the game.
Thinking back on all the hours I wasted waiting to be invited to a fleet I have to laugh at your assessment that incursions are new player friendly. There were very few FC"s willing to risk a new player into their fleets even when they are all skills 5 for BS or logi, I expect that there are even fewer still that would risk a low skills, low time in game new player.

"No, what I'm trying to do is change a mechanic where a small group of players have the power to arbitrarily deny the ability to run incursions to everyone else in highsec."
Put another way you do not want one small group of players to affect YOUR game play. Following this logic we should eliminate war decs because that is one small group affecting the game play of others. We should eliminate suicide ganking because that is another small group of people affecting the game play of others. I can go on on for days on this one but as others have said that is the nature of EVE get used to it.

"My OP was about suggestion to keep the mothership site from being taken down so quickly, and denying highsec players the ability to run incursions."
No you OP is about protecting a very small segment of the high sec player base and their ability to farm ridiculous amounts of ISK at the expense of all of the other players in the affected systems. If you really cared about getting others into incursions then you and all of the other "normal" group of incursions runners would gladly step aside and allow others to take your spots in the fleets. However based on my experiences and those of several dozen other players I know that have tried incursions this is not the case. Those that are in a fleet want to stay in so THEY can make the ISK and LP, they DO NOT want to step out and give someone else a chance.

Your opening line is anecdotal at best and a statistical outlier at worst. Being able to earn that kind of ISK in the first two months of play is not a typical experience for people with obligations outside the game. Beyond that, if you're only two months into the game I question if your support skills are sufficiently trained enough for you to even fly that battleship properly, let alone at an Incursion-ready level.



So you think that EVE should be bubble-wrapped and insulated against players So what? In all this mindless screeching and preaching you've still failed to answer the question of why people shouldn't be allowed to knock over your incursion sandcastle. So answer it.

Also, the goons did shut down all ice belts at one point - at least in Gallente space. See the Gallente Ice Interdiction. You'll note that CCP did absolutely nothing to stop it.



You mean ... create more groups that will compete for the same amount of resources, sparking off even more hatred and drama, not to mention more "early" mothership kills? Are you sure you really want that?

Then let's be clear on your statements in the first place:

YOU ARE ALREADY INVOLVED IN ONE TYPE OF PVP.

There are only so many of those sites per system, per incursion. What you do is deny others the ability to run the sites you are running and "compete" with them to get to those sites first.

That is a form of PvP just like "world bosses" being taken by "elite" groups in other PvE games - they prevent others from doing those bosses by taking them first - and that is why they first came up with "instances" for bosses in those games.

So someone else finds a boss and finishes it, stopping your farming of "trash around the boss" and you're hacked off about it?

Suck it up. That is their beating the encounter and nothing more.

You're already doing something similar to any others who might be interested in trying those sites while asking CCP to deny others from doing a larger target.

That is special treatment for just 1 "farming" style of play and very inappropriate "PvE wise" to ask after and support.

It actually depends - often there are not enough fleets in a single focus to be competing for sites, so it's not really PvP. Occasionally you do have contests, which are PvP and fun (but also don't involve serious risk of losing your ship!). The problem here is that incursions were not designed as a "kill the boss and move on" gameplay element - they were designed so that it was mutually beneficial for communities to keep the boss up for a reasonable amount of time and complete more sites. It's a natural win/win node of the Prisoner's dilemma. It doesn't make sense for any one group to have the power to entirely shut down a form of PvE in highsec - there is no reason to have that as a game mechanic. It just means fewer people running incursions, and more people doing solo activities like L4s and mining - which to me at least, is a bad outcome.

I've addressed that (repeatedly). There is no game mechanic available to shut down all highsec mission running, all highsec mining, all highsec hauling, all highsec trading, etc... Certainly not to shut it down for 12-36 hours with a few friends and a minimal amount of effort. Similarly, there should be no mechanic to shut down all incursions in highsec like that. Imagine if there was a site - "highsec trading embargo site" - that if you ran with 40 battleships would shut down the Eve Market for 24 hours. Would anyone thing that's a good idea?

Because to shut down missioning you have to go kill every single mission runner, ditto with mining, etc... With incursions if you complete 3 15 minute sites you shut down incursions in all of highsec for everyone. If you want to globally shut down incursions you should need to do the same thing you would for any activity, go and suicide gank all the active participants, etc....