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Mining and rats
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Rookie Jack Esparante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-09-08 16:18:26 UTC
those rats are no problem for miners, is it not time to make the fight a bit harder? you get absolutely no damage from them, they are tooooooooooooo easy to handle

maybe make the fight accourding to how much time you have spent on the game, I know there is a limit of how far you can take this, but I think some work need to be done on this

other than that, I love the game, even if I am only a miner

Rookie
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#2 - 2014-09-08 16:46:57 UTC
Did you just stay in your 0.8 belt ?

Rats become more powerful and difficult the lower the security rating is, if you only stay in 1.0, 0.9 (no rats) and 0.8 -0.7 systems, it is no surprise. Just wait till you get perma jammed in a Caldari 0.5 belt or blasted to shreds in a highsec Incursion area ... even if only by accident.

Otherwise you will offer a side income to miners which is more for rattting (rat hunting). Every change has to be considered. I actually got out of an L4 mining misison with 15% hull on my retriever... the lower the sec status the more and stronger extra random spawn you get even in those grids.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#3 - 2014-09-08 18:12:24 UTC
go mine in null the rates out here will tear you a new one if you're not paying attention

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-09-08 18:18:26 UTC
Skiff fleet best fleet
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#5 - 2014-09-08 19:38:24 UTC
Rookie Jack Esparante wrote:
those rats are no problem for miners, is it not time to make the fight a bit harder? you get absolutely no damage from them, they are tooooooooooooo easy to handle

maybe make the fight accourding to how much time you have spent on the game, I know there is a limit of how far you can take this, but I think some work need to be done on this

other than that, I love the game, even if I am only a miner

Rookie



Jump into a gas site in a WH and let us know what happens.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-09-08 23:18:36 UTC
The difficulty of asteroid rats jumps quite a bit from the weak frigate rats in 0.5 to the occasional but not particularly uncommon battleship rats in 0.4. I think the highsec rats could use a bit of a steeper climb. Would be nice to see:
1.0: still no rats
0.9: weak frigates even a newbie in a rookie ship with civilian guns can fight
0.8: weak, like level 1 mission rats
0.7: like current 0.5 rats, but also with the occasional destroyer spawns
0.6: frigates, interceptors, destroyers, and sometimes cruisers--light EWAR sometimes
0.5: commonly cruiser rats, sometimes frigates/interceptors that tackle--more EWAR

This would give barges something to fight against every once in a while when mining in lower highsec. Anyone who feels it's too much to handle can easily find a safer mining spot.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#7 - 2014-09-09 01:39:16 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
The difficulty of asteroid rats jumps quite a bit from the weak frigate rats in 0.5 to the occasional but not particularly uncommon battleship rats in 0.4. I think the highsec rats could use a bit of a steeper climb. Would be nice to see:
1.0: still no rats
0.9: weak frigates even a newbie in a rookie ship with civilian guns can fight
0.8: weak, like level 1 mission rats
0.7: like current 0.5 rats, but also with the occasional destroyer spawns
0.6: frigates, interceptors, destroyers, and sometimes cruisers--light EWAR sometimes
0.5: commonly cruiser rats, sometimes frigates/interceptors that tackle--more EWAR

This would give barges something to fight against every once in a while when mining in lower highsec. Anyone who feels it's too much to handle can easily find a safer mining spot.


A first comment, we really have to remember that this is a game populated with people with many different expectations and wishes. There are players in this game that have never flown missions and do not want anything to do with any of the combat aspects of the game. To these people getting rid of the belt rats would be the best idea and yet you want them to be more powerful to better suit your vision of what they should be?

With that said I like your general idea but there are a few specifics that need attention based on my experiences.
For a newer player with the Venture or low drones skills even a couple of level 1 mission rats can be difficult, remember poor skills, poor fits and mining ships here not mission ships.
Even with all level 5 drone skills a group of cruiser class rats with EWAR could be difficult to impossible to handle, again remember we are talking about mining ships with mining fits not mission ships. So I would adjust your scale like this.

1.0 and 0.9 should be no rats or an occasional very week single frigate rat, hey this is space and they need to learn how to handle it, even if they do not like the combat aspects of the game.
0.8 and 0.7 could remain about where they currently are.
0.6 should see more, or slightly more powerful frigate based rats or the occasional week destroyer based rat.
0.5 is where those destroyer class and tougher frigates should come in, if there is a cruiser class rat then it would need to be solo or with very few and very week frigs with it.

Not so sure about the EWAR aspects of all this and I am not sure if EWAR even has a place in belt rats outside of low/nul.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-09-09 01:48:18 UTC
You don't have to be fit to run level 1 missions in order to beat a couple of level 1 rats in your belt. The mission pits you against 5-10 at a time pretty often.

I stand by my assessment and believe (through a lot of experience operating ships at low skill levels against many classes of rats) that it would make for a very smooth ramping of difficulty as you go to lower security levels. Players are already warned to watch out when they go to lower levels of highsec. It's not like new players won't be able to figure out why their venture got blown up by rats in a 0.6 sec system. If they aren't ready to fight such enemies, they can try going to 0.8 or 0.9. If they want no rats, they can go to 1.0.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#9 - 2014-09-09 01:53:14 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
There are players in this game that have never flown missions and do not want anything to do with any of the combat aspects of the game.


Those players should not undock if they wish to avoid combat. Hitting that "UNDOCK" button means you want to enter a combat zone. It's nobody else's problem if these people either fail or refuse to understand that.

To be perfectly honest though, why are these people playing a game that is built on and based around unfair no-holds-barred PvP if they don't want anything to do with combat?
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-09-09 05:02:22 UTC
In high-sec, sure they're easy to handle. That's the benefit of high-sec.

In low-sec you need a tanked Procurer to be able to completely ignore them.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-09-09 05:09:55 UTC
Rookie Jack Esparante wrote:
those rats are no problem for miners...

Try mining in the same belt as a Guristas Extinguisher.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-09-09 05:26:44 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Rookie Jack Esparante wrote:
those rats are no problem for miners...

Try mining in the same belt as a Guristas Extinguisher.

1.) you won't find it in highsec.
2.) even that won't kill much of anything. Wouldn't surprise me if a barge could speed-tank it. Weakest battleship rat ever?
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=11935
87 kinetic DPS.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-09-09 05:59:43 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
1.) you won't find it in highsec.

"highsec" is not mentioned in OP, and so irrelevant.
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
2.) even that won't kill much of anything.

Why do you think killing is the issue with the Guristas Extinguisher?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2014-09-09 06:25:59 UTC
Well... rats in high level High sec space (1.0 - 0.7) are not supposed to be hard, NPC in low level High sec space (0.6 - 0.5) are also not supposed to be hard, but require some tank to withstand. Rats in all sec levels ewar you, if such specialized NPC are spawned. 0.5 also already spawns the occasional destroyer. However, if you want a lot more action, you have to go into other, less secure areas of space. There is no point in making High sec space less secure, because this would just undermine the already less secure space. Period.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Tabris Katz
The Forgotten Children
#15 - 2014-09-11 06:40:10 UTC
Where are all you mining that you're seeing destroyers and sometimes cruisers in .5 sec belts? I've only mined in Amarr and Minmatar space and I've only seen frigates.

But ya as most people have stated, try mining in null, wh or while an incursion is going on. It gets a lot harder a lot faster. Especially incursion rats which don't have bounties on them.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#16 - 2014-09-12 01:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
There are players in this game that have never flown missions and do not want anything to do with any of the combat aspects of the game.


Those players should not undock if they wish to avoid combat. Hitting that "UNDOCK" button means you want to enter a combat zone. It's nobody else's problem if these people either fail or refuse to understand that.

To be perfectly honest though, why are these people playing a game that is built on and based around unfair no-holds-barred PvP if they don't want anything to do with combat?


Excuse for a late answer on this.

First we need to define PvP because there are 2 radically different interpretations.
1. is the traditional 2 or more players go out into space and try to blow each apart. For all of the industrial players I know in the game this is the definition of PvP they use.

2. is an emerging one in the last few years. it maintains that all of EVE is PvP because in some way or another we are all in competition with each other. Miners compete for belts, haulers may compete for contracts, traders trying to beat each other to a sale and the list goes on. While I understand and accept this definition from my point of view there are a lot of players many of them PvP toons that would disagree with it.

If #1 is the definition you use when you claim that EVE is a PvP based game then I disagree with you in the strongest possible terms. And I wonder if this is the definition CCP uses why did they bother wasting the development resources to put all of the other content into EVE? Why did they bother with high sec anyway and why bother with useless things like WD when the entire game could be just one big free for all blast away at each other sandbox.

If #2 is your definition of PvP then I agree with you that Eve is a PvP based game.

To make the rest of this easier for all of us, from here to the end of this post when I refer to PvP I use it based on definition #1 above.

"To be perfectly honest though, why are these people playing a game that is built on and based around unfair no-holds-barred vP if they don't want anything to do with combat?"
That is an excellent question and the answer would be different for everyone so all I can do is give you a composite answer based on 4 years of dealing with players that do not like PvP.

There is no other MMO out there that has the wide range of activities, or the player driven economy that EVE has. It is this wide range of activities and the player driven economy that draws the non-PvP players that I know or have talked to into this game. Despite the suicide ganks, burn Jita's, Ice incursions and all of the other PvP shenanigans that happen in high sec it is this wide range of activities and the player driven economy that keeps them in this game. So I say be thankful for this fact, you would have a whole lot fewer targets if they were not here.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#17 - 2014-09-12 01:55:33 UTC
Hummmm no.
The asteroids themselves should be the danger as in every sci-fi movie book, série.
Moving asteroids hiting/exploding etc etc

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-09-12 02:14:09 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
Hummmm no.
The asteroids themselves should be the danger as in every sci-fi movie book, série.
Moving asteroids hiting/exploding etc etc



they'd have to fix their collision meshes first. Unless better these days, I have in the past been stuck on a rock I was no where near 0 meters on. Now if better, please correct as I'd be happy to be out of data and wrong. Crap sucked.
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-09-12 11:06:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
I wouldn't mind seeing harder rats introduced into lower security systems. Perhaps not the incursion AI, but something like in the mining L4s. Gives something to do - at least for newer players who still like shooting rats - adds some risk, and makes it nearly impossible to AFK properly. Risk/reward mechanic at work; lower sec status has increased profitability as well as ice, which 0.8+ does not. CONCORD response times are lower but that is largely the only real disadvantage. Let's expand it.

Bounties and loot drops could be limited, but seems the mechanics in this regard work well enough in null (some people do rat by running through belts).

Hey guys.
Voxinian
#20 - 2014-09-12 11:17:46 UTC
In high sec even 0.5 the rats are just lame and pointless, even one T1 drone can kill off the rats while your afk mining. A 1 day old account laughs at belt rats in high sec.

I want to see dynamic rats in systems that not only roam belts, but roam the entire system, so also near planets, POS and stations. In a .5 system you should have roaming pirate scouts that actively looks for stationary/afk players and that the shout rat calls in a NPC fleet to mess with you, and not just some frigs, but BC's and a BS between there, something that actually can do some damage when your afk or only have a few T1 drones out.
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