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Please Revisit "Scaling" of Missions
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Kyoko Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-09-09 15:58:27 UTC
Your issue is a sp/ship issue, not a "mission is unfair" issue. You'll eventually get to a point in sp with a shiny ship that you'll be stuffing triggers in lvl 4 blockade out of boredom. And yea, you weren't prepared at all for the mission (I also never read ahead about what missions I was gonna do, but that was long ago and all the missions were stupid easy). Guristas also suck donkey nuts. Yup mediums/lights for cruiser sized rats and under, I pop frigates on my own (as it seems it's the frigs that kill drones). But yup, train up skills, get a better boat and you'll eventually be wondering why you ever thought that was so hard.

Seriously though, everything can't be easy "give me free stuff" mode. Pve missions are already mind numbing enough, need some challenge.
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-09-09 16:49:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
CaiJi Du wrote:
afkalt wrote:
CaiJi Du wrote:
Working up a BC with rail guns - should give me the range to stand-off and snipe them. Just need to work out the tank and speed so I can survive long enough to get to range.



Thanks for all the feedback folks. Appreciated.



Fit a medium micro jump drive. Instant range dictation.

The particular mission that started all this is Deadspace. You can't warp within in it. Will a MJD work in there?


Yes

Sadly, I've discovered I can't fit a MJD on a T1 BC - for now, not an option. :(
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-09-09 17:03:33 UTC
Why not?
Sunrise Aigele
Pemberley Enterprises
#24 - 2014-09-09 17:07:35 UTC
I would imagine that it is a combination of middling or missing skills and the stiff fitting demands of MJDs relative to afterburners.

That said, MJDs are absolutely worth training and refitting for.
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-09-09 18:01:39 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Why not?

The gospel according to EFT v2.23. Said I couldn't fit it to the Talos.

Haven't tried it in EVE yet, but the info says it can be fitted to a Combat Battle Cruiser, whatever that means...
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2014-09-09 18:20:31 UTC  |  Edited by: CaiJi Du
Keeping in mind this fit is specifically for handling Cut-Throat Competition...

Low
1 x Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer - Nanite Repair Paste
1 x Damage Control II
1 x Armor Kinetic Hardener I
1 x Armor Thermic Hardener I
1 x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Med
1 x Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
1 x Sensor Booster II - Targeting Range Script
1 x Tracking Computer I - Optimal Range Script
1 x Medium Capacitor Booster II - Cap Booster 400

High
8 x 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun

Rigs
1 x Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
1 x Medium Ancillary Current Router I
1 x Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I

Drones
'Integrated' Warrior

Stage 1: I land in the middle of the swarm, so first is the sprint to distance while tanking. This fit is cap-sustainable for up to 18 minutes, but I'm carrying enough cap booster for 5 (more than enough).

Stage 2: Once at about 100km, the enemy damage is easily handled. Won't need MWD, and rarely need reps. Cap stable with all 8 guns firing. Loaded with Iridium L I'll have Optimal 99+33 and 174 dps.

Stage 3: When down to 5 enemy I'll move in to about 40km, switch to Antimatter L and launch drones. To be cap stable at 34% I'll be firing only 7 guns, no sensor booster or tracking computer. Total dps now will be 321 with Optimal 38+28.

Comments?
Kyoko Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-09-09 18:20:39 UTC
CaiJi Du wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Why not?

The gospel according to EFT v2.23. Said I couldn't fit it to the Talos.

Haven't tried it in EVE yet, but the info says it can be fitted to a Combat Battle Cruiser, whatever that means...


Talos is an Attack BC, the ones that are combat BCs are Myrmidon and Brutix (errr I believe Gallente is the Talos right?)
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#28 - 2014-09-09 21:14:20 UTC
or command ships.
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-09-10 01:54:19 UTC
Kyoko Onzo wrote:
CaiJi Du wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Why not?

The gospel according to EFT v2.23. Said I couldn't fit it to the Talos.

Haven't tried it in EVE yet, but the info says it can be fitted to a Combat Battle Cruiser, whatever that means...


Talos is an Attack BC, the ones that are combat BCs are Myrmidon and Brutix (errr I believe Gallente is the Talos right?)


...and...



Estella Osoka wrote:
or command ships.

So, no MJD for me and my Talos.
Voxinian
#30 - 2014-09-10 09:07:02 UTC
Get a cheap Drake if you want to use MJD, it can do L3's just fine and lighter L4's too. THough a MJD is not really needed for missions at all.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-09-10 10:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
Talos isn't a great ship for L3 missions. The large guns have trouble hitting smaller targets (mostly cruisers and frigatesin L3s, with some battlecruisers) because of the tracking and sig radius of the guns and it doesn't have a great tank.

Brutix works great for L3 missions if you prefer the gunnery side of Gallente, otherwise the Myrmidon is a monster with its drone bonuses.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#32 - 2014-09-10 10:50:55 UTC
Get Gnosis or Prophecy for MJD L3 missions in a drone boat.

But I believe the right way for you is to get ASAP skills to fly Armageddon with cruise missiles. That way you always can adapt your damage type to the mission. Talos or Oracle will suffer from the simple fact, that they do only limited kind of damage. I tryed to run L4 missions in attack cruiser myself, it is doable, but takes very long time.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-09-10 11:13:20 UTC
CaiJi Du wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Why not?

The gospel according to EFT v2.23. Said I couldn't fit it to the Talos.

Haven't tried it in EVE yet, but the info says it can be fitted to a Combat Battle Cruiser, whatever that means...


Ah, yes. That would do it Smile

Don't usually see mission runners in ABCs so I assumed (clearly wrongly!) that you were in a CBC as they tend to tank better.
Carek Talen
Another Corp.
#34 - 2014-09-10 11:24:27 UTC
You can complete the mission with your ship and tactic but...

Talos, MWD and ancillary armor are strange choices for pve.

Talos can fit eight large weapons but it is a glass cannon, most people use the Brutix, only six medium guns, but more than twice the armor and drone bay, an extra low and a bonus to repair. Also counting guns alone the Brutix with 250mm has more dps (not alpha) than the 425mm Talos.

MWD reduces your total cap and increases your signature, usual pve fits use an AB.

Ancillary armor repairer is good if you are using nanite, but the nanite is expensive and without nanite is less effective than a meta 0 module.

The warrior is fast, but hobgoblin do more raw damage and guristas are weaker against thermal and anyway you don't want to send your drones farther away than 15-20 km.

Of course against heavy jamming a Myrmidon would be much better than a turret ship.
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2014-09-10 14:11:37 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Get a cheap Drake if you want to use MJD, it can do L3's just fine and lighter L4's too. THough a MJD is not really needed for missions at all.


erg cz wrote:
Get Gnosis or Prophecy for MJD L3 missions in a drone boat.

But I believe the right way for you is to get ASAP skills to fly Armageddon with cruise missiles. That way you always can adapt your damage type to the mission. Talos or Oracle will suffer from the simple fact, that they do only limited kind of damage. I tryed to run L4 missions in attack cruiser myself, it is doable, but takes very long time.

Drake = Caldari, and I have little training in them. Right now time is an issue, and I'm not a huge fan of missiles.

The Gnosis is...fugly. Seriously, my concern here would be, well, it seems to be a jack of all trades, master of none. It might be awesome, but I wouldn't know what to do with it.

The Prophecy looks interesting. I've got fair skills on both Gallente and Amarr ships and weapons, and thanks to the Stratios, I've invested in drones too. I'm seeing this as an armor brawler. It certainly is a lot tougher than the Talos. Heck, the Stratios is a lot tougher than the Talos.

Anyway, early EFT fitting is suggesting about 146dps an guns using Heavy Modified Pulse Energy Beam I with Multifrequency M and Optimal 6.9+4.6.

The range is fine, but the dps is unimpressive for close range guns and I'm struggling with cap stability and I haven't finished the fit. 4 x 'Integrated' Berserkers bring total dps to 289.

Now, I was wondering why every fit I found for the Talos was for a brawler when it looks to me like a sniper (low defenses, long range). Still, changing things around a bit....

8 x Modal Mega Electron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge L

Plus several other mods (no sensor boost, no tracking computer). Short answer is this yields 384dps with Optimal 3.3+7.6. 5 x 'Integrated' Warriors bring total dps to 445

This fit includes a MWD to close quickly (then shut off) and runs a web stable at 53%

Repping will draw down, but I can run the MAR II full time with cap booster and stay cap stable as long as the boosters last. Thing is, I can rep 368hp / 9.6s, or 38.4hp/s.

Mission information says these guys do Thermal and Kinetic damage; my armor resistances are 72.4% for each.

Then question then is, will my 445dps melt them before they melt me?
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-09-10 14:27:23 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Get Gnosis or Prophecy for MJD L3 missions in a drone boat.

But I believe the right way for you is to get ASAP skills to fly Armageddon with cruise missiles. That way you always can adapt your damage type to the mission. Talos or Oracle will suffer from the simple fact, that they do only limited kind of damage. I tryed to run L4 missions in attack cruiser myself, it is doable, but takes very long time.

Okay, I'm listening...

Got a fit for this? Ironically, due to preparing for the Talos (large lasers) I've got just 2.25 days to get in this boat, and I'd step in at Mastery II. Not wonderful, but...
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-09-10 14:29:57 UTC
General question...

It looks to me like -most- of the recommendations are for brawling solutions... get in their faces and tear them up fast?

Is that how most of you tackle missions?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#38 - 2014-09-10 14:56:18 UTC
No, best way to run L4 missions is in a BS. In particular, a Marauder or Pirate Faction BS.
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2014-09-10 15:21:00 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
No, best way to run L4 missions is in a BS. In particular, a Marauder or Pirate Faction BS.

Wouldn't that be lovely *sigh*.

About 3 months of training if I stay absolutely focused on that one goal, and I suppose I can mine enough ice in that time to pay for it if I don't buy anything else.

In the meantime, there shall be T1's in my life Lol
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-09-10 15:32:29 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Talos isn't a great ship for L3 missions. The large guns have trouble hitting smaller targets (mostly cruisers and frigatesin L3s, with some battlecruisers) because of the tracking and sig radius of the guns and it doesn't have a great tank.

I understand your argument however...

Recall that my intent is to stand off at 100+km. At that range the NPCs simply chase me in a straight line, and their dps is negligible so I'd say my limited tank is no longer a problem.

They will be at, or very close to, my optimal range, with zero angular velocity and zero rate of closure. Doesn't that mean I'll have very little trouble hitting them?

If I am correct, this means my victory should be almost inevitable.
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