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[Feeback] Burner Missions - Too Difficult

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Author
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#21 - 2014-09-08 13:08:51 UTC
Something to keep in mind: Burner Mission NPC ships have resist profiles similar to player ships, not traditional NPCs. This means that against a Guristas Burner, you probably want to be doing EM damage, not Kinetic. Trying to use EM damage against an armor-tanked Burner or Explosive against a shield-tanked Burner will make completing the mission far more difficult.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#22 - 2014-09-08 13:43:51 UTC
To the OP:

No. Your own personal inability to rise to the challenge is not proof of anything, nor will they dumb down some of the few actual challenges in the game for your sake.

And seeing as they can be refused without penalty, you don't have a leg to stand on.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#23 - 2014-09-08 13:43:59 UTC
I have not run one of these and doubt that I will but here are some questions for all of you that have.

If you run the same burner mission more than once does it change with each time through?
If not I wonder if these will ultimately become just another form of the boring been there and done grind that is true of all missions?

As fits and tactics for running these are posted up on the web for others to follow (think eve survival here) how long do they maintain there unique challenges?

Maybe these burner missions is the place to implement the basics of this idea, it could keep these missions from falling into the same old stale grind that is mission running.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=367102&find=unread


Anthar Thebess
#24 - 2014-09-08 13:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
They are not to difficult , just not provide enough reward for the risk , or players do not accept current reward vs risk ratio.

If you fly proper ship ( good fit included) on a mission you will do this mission easily without any real danger. (higsec missions )
In burner missions , even when you bring proper ship ( good fit included ) and even support ship - something might go wrong, and you loose both ships.

I had this issue.
T1 overtanked frigate was providing additional ewar for main ship.
Extra webs minor dps, warping first to get most of the initial dps etc.
I could easily blitz those missions - until small lag caused burner to leave web overheated range Roll
4 minutes later both ships where dead , and the burner was able to fix itself from the half of the structure.

This is something that most of higsec runners do not accept - that something will go wrong , and they will be scrambled on their faction fitted ships.

You loose often ships in nullsec because of some glitch - so nullsec people threat this as something normal.

Stil i only once got faction drop from a burner - ammo , so after this lag i also decided that risk vs reward on nullsec burners is not worth the time.
Income source is a bit different in nullsec , especially that pvp you can find 2-3 jumps away if you are not in CFC or NCPL & renters.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#25 - 2014-09-08 13:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
To the OP:

No. Your own personal inability to rise to the challenge is not proof of anything, nor will they dumb down some of the few actual challenges in the game for your sake.

And seeing as they can be refused without penalty, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Um maybe read the op? I have killed these rats. I am arguing that these rats require ship/fits that are too specific.

Post a video of u soloing the angel burner with a projectile boat? You win if u do.

Anthar Thebess wrote:

If you fly proper ship ( good fit included) on a mission you will do this mission easily without any real danger.


My problem here is the very limited number of "good fits". In other areas of PvX most ship will have at least one good or at least passable fit. Does not appear to be that way with burners
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#26 - 2014-09-08 14:01:42 UTC
And?

L4s are restrictive, you can't do them in the majority of ships that exist out there.

This is no different.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#27 - 2014-09-08 14:05:54 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And?

L4s are restrictive, you can't do them in the majority of ships that exist out there.

This is no different.

Trolling?
You can do lvl 4s in at least one of xyz races combat class ships like assault frig, hac, cmd ship, strat cruiser, etc. And I'm sure any battleship could handle a 4.

I encourage you to attempt to solo the angel burner with a projectile boat. Its one thing to say a certain race / wep system is less efficient. Its quite another to say that a race's main hulls / wep systems options can't be used to complete a mission
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-09-08 14:46:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And?

L4s are restrictive, you can't do them in the majority of ships that exist out there.

This is no different.


They are nowhere near as restrictive though. Nor is death as assured if you don't take win fit #21312 or #21313.

It's rock, paper, scissors punctuated by sudden death. This is, however, what they were aiming for sooooo basically that's that. The fights are decided the minute you undock.

It is what it is and the designers mentioned in the AT streams they're extremely happy with them.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-09-08 16:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Burner missions are a hard step towards unfair PvP and they all scale, Angel is not Guristas, which you can see at the estimated bonus time. As an example,. Bloodraiders bonus time is 45 minutes... Guristas way over 4 hours, that is a huge step in difficulty.

I don't think the time window for the bonus really means anything. If you can't kill the rat in less than 5 minutes your not going to kill it. Its not like it takes long to fly two jumps in a frigate either.

That said I feel that the rewards from the burner missions are a bit low. Not because they are hard, (I have solo'd all of them on my first attempt except the Blood Raider one. Looking forward to a rematch with that one this evening.) but because they require such specialized fits and an almost magic mix of bling and good piloting skills (both RL and SP). As with anything else bling can help make up for a lack of skill and lots of skill can let you run full T2. But ~8 million ISK and ~8,500 LP just isn't that much for the amount of effort required to beat them.

Those who just want to grind ISK/hour will decline them due to the highly specialized fitting and training requirements and those who do them for the challenge aren't really rewarded adequately. Because lets face it, unless you are flying a blinged out gank magnet you are going to loose a ship to these missions every once in a while. Unlike normal L4 missions which are totally risk free. (Gankers aside of course.)
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#30 - 2014-09-08 16:53:43 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
I don't think the time window for the bonus really means anything. If you can't kill the rat in less than 5 minutes your not going to kill it. Its not like it takes long to fly two jumps in a frigate either.

It doesn't mean anything practically, it's just an indicator of how long a mission might challange someone in general and if applied here too as the same intel, you can draw your conclusions about the difficulty, if not complexity.

And the time settings are in sync with our personal observations, which of course you can argue is subjective, but in all cases so far have confirmed the hypothesis for us. But that on the side, personal experience and such ,)
Phaade
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#31 - 2014-09-08 17:11:19 UTC
Well I've lost just over 100m and have made 14m from burner missions.

No I will not invest in several specifically fit 100-200m pirate faction ships for the opportunity to make 6-7m per mission....

The Gurista mission goes like this: well, I move 3900m/s OH, he goes 3600m/s, will I get lucky with heat cycles long enough to catch him? If so, I can win. if not, I just die. The first time I caught him, my MWD burned my cap booster out......

Or I can invest 1b in snakes, or, $15 a month for off-grid boosting.

No thanks.

So, enjoy a new crap form of PvE, I guess.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#32 - 2014-09-08 17:12:48 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Well I've lost just over 100m and have made 14m from burner missions.

No I will not invest in several specifically fit 100-200m pirate faction ships for the opportunity to make 6-7m per mission....

The Gurista mission goes like this: well, I move 3900m/s OH, he goes 3600m/s, will I get lucky with heat cycles long enough to catch him? If so, I can win. if not, I just die. The first time I caught him, my MWD burned my cap booster out......

Or I can invest 1b in snakes, or, $15 a month for off-grid boosting.

No thanks.

So, enjoy a new crap form of PvE, I guess.

Buhuhu!

Move along - still waiting for my trial Titan.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-09-08 17:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
It doesn't mean anything practically, it's just an indicator of how long a mission might challange someone in general and if applied here too as the same intel, you can draw your conclusions about the difficulty, if not complexity.

And the time settings are in sync with our personal observations, which of course you can argue is subjective, but in all cases so far have confirmed the hypothesis for us. But that on the side, personal experience and such ,)

I agree it is subjective. Perhaps that's why its hard for me to see it. All of the burner missions (except blood raiders) take me about the same time to complete, a bit under 2 minutes plus travel time judging by how many cap boosters I use (4-6 navy 200's depending on the rat).

My results are probably further clouded by the fact that I can fly every frigate in the game nearly perfectly. Most people probably don't have the ship selection available to high SP subcap pilots. This is actually another issue with these missions. If you haven't fully cross trained in the frigate class they will be much harder than they are for someone who has cross trained. (Daredevil aside, but even that requires two races.)
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-09-08 17:20:22 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Well I've lost just over 100m and have made 14m from burner missions.

No I will not invest in several specifically fit 100-200m pirate faction ships for the opportunity to make 6-7m per mission....

The Gurista mission goes like this: well, I move 3900m/s OH, he goes 3600m/s, will I get lucky with heat cycles long enough to catch him? If so, I can win. if not, I just die. The first time I caught him, my MWD burned my cap booster out......

Or I can invest 1b in snakes, or, $15 a month for off-grid boosting.

No thanks.

So, enjoy a new crap form of PvE, I guess.

Or you can overheat a meta4 MWD on a Daredevil and laugh as his measly 3600m/s speed until you throw a 90% web on him. From there its just a DPS/tank race at point blank with zero transversal, which is something a void Daredevil is quite good at.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#35 - 2014-09-08 17:22:27 UTC
Quote:
23. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.

Thread closed.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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