EVE General Discussion

I just want to chime in here that Abom was a really awesome PvPer back when he was active. When I was new to the game, he was one of the people who helped me out. Back when I flew nothing but tackle frigates, he taught me a lot of useful things, and gave me practice doing things like spiralling in properly, or dscanning quickly and accurately.

Much like Tippia, I'd rather have the ability to fly what I want to fly, instead of having the ability to fly a single type of ship perfectly. I really like some specific ships. My absolute favourite is a rail Atron, although I like a lot of other kiting ships. My SP is all over the place, because of that. I can fly pretty much every frig, dessie, and T1 cruiser, and fly them all quite well. I have a lot of support skills which assist the ships I like to fly. My navs are essentially perfect for subcaps (missing Warp drive operation V), and I'm currently working on fixing my gunnery supports (I don't plan on getting the specs to V for a while yet, I'll live without 2% dps), but because of how spread out my SP has been, I cannot say that I can fly anything perfectly.

EDIT - I figure I should throw my eveboard in here to show what I mean. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Liquid%27Courage

I do agree with the sentiment that player skill is the most important thing. Flying your ship well makes so much of a difference that it completely trumps a good fit or SP against the vast majority of people in Eve. After pilot skill, a proper fit makes a huge difference, because a proper fit will get you a pretty big statistical advantage in a fight that you can take advantage of with proper piloting skill. However, if both parties have piloting skill and proper fits, there is a distinct advantage that the person with the most applicable SP has (assuming well trained) that cannot be overcome, and you see this in some of the higher quality tournament teams and when dealing with the more elite pvpers in the game. For most people in Eve, the SP difference rarely makes a significant difference in the outcome of a fight. When I was new to the game, I know that there were times where I was the fight MVP in my little frigate because I got some really key tackles and kept myself alive long enough for the big guns to do the blasting they needed to do.

that's exactly what a bittervet would say

That's a very impressive skill tree!

Total SP count is not relevant.


It's where you put them. You could even find a PVP ship fitting and train solely around that one fitting and have superiority with only a few million SP.

the gang still needs tackle though, one of our execs provided hero tackle a while ago

I know I'm going to appreciate it lol. Just on my Atron as an example - a couple percent DPS from rapid firing, optimal and falloff don't increase DPS, however, they will allow me to change to a closer ranged ammo choice while retaining the same range I had previously or allows me to use the same ammo and hit harder while outside of optimal range, which would also add a few percent to my DPS. Tracking on rails is rather bad, so a slight increase in tracking will allow me to hit harder at higher speeds, which will allow me to apply my DPS better, which means it also effectively increases my DPS. With all supports at 5 instead of 4, I'm sure that it pushes me above a 10% effective increase in DPS on my Atron.

10% doesn't seem like much on a ship that does like 100 to 110 dps. Suddenly I'm doing 110-120. Big deal, right? Actually, it can be.

If my enemy has the ability to passively or actively regen 60 dps, then instead of doing 40-50 dps, I'm doing 50-60 dps to them. That's like a 20% effective increase in damage I'm doing in an engagement. And for a frigate fight, that kind of repping power is what you'd see from a MASB or SAAR. That makes a massive difference when I'm in a pvppp situation (as in, solo vs several people, something that I constantly do), or when you're taking on ships that are much tougher to crack (like T2 frigates or dessies). Granted, this is a bit of an abstract situation, but I'm just trying to point out how these skills kindof stack onto each other a lot better than most people realize. I constantly get into fights where I'm outnumbered, outshipped, or usually both, so spending a couple months polishing off some skills to gain an advantage like that is worth it imo. Especially when those skills are used every time you use a ship that uses turrets.....

I haven't undocked in 3 months or so lol. Kinda burnt out from eve at the moment, and have some other stuff going on that's taking up my spare time. Just playing "Skills training online" right now lol.

This^^

There's also a very stark difference between doctrine and elitism. The former is handy for the FC because he knows what will be in the field; the latter is a handicap because it causes the same FC to leave stuff off the field. The previously mentioned FC who does not allow a fleet to be filled because of the lack of very marginal lvl-V skills is effectively saying that losing 5% DPS is qualitatively better than losing 0.5%, simply because of the source of that damage.

So there's a flipside to that coin: if winning is so absolutely important, you do anything to gain that victory — arbitrarily crippling yourself for reasons of charsheet purity is outright folly.

That's because you know more than you did 6 months ago, not because you have 6 months more SP. I'm telling you this from a mostly solo pilot's perspective.

We're talking about at what point you stop being useless in PvP in various scenarios, which is what the OP was asking for.

…and that is pretty much why a figure as high as 900k was mentioned rather than, say, ~100k.