EVE General Discussion

It has been argued several thousand time that new player will not or can not, catch up to the consistant/bitter vet players when it comes to PVP. I do not beilive this is true. How ever there is truth in that you are going to be useless until you hit a certain amount of SP.

Assuming they are properly alocated. In the fallowing areas what is a good number of skill points to have for pvp?
Solo
Small gang
Big Gang
Tournament events

If you think Im being to broad feel free to post your opinions, as I'm sure you dont need me to tell you.



Fixed typo in thread title. ISD Ezwal.

Here is the rundown:

#1) Have a account with a character on it.
#2) Get to know other players, be social, make friends.
#3) Take some time reading about game mechanics, how to set up proper overview, etc.
#4) Go shoot people

It's really that easy. Step #2 and #3 are the hard part.

When the bittervets start whining about skillpoints and catching up with others, just remember: going at things all alone takes a LOT of practice, and the less people you have getting your back - the harder it gets. The best players simply know how to build a fleet, have every single member of the fleet performing one very specific role, and they just win and keep on winning.

Shoot me a convo in game if you need some introduction to alliances that are happy to welcome and mold the newbro into a effective player. When you encounter any player who tells you that you "can't do X" due to lack of SP, ignore them. You just need more friends :)

1) Maybe 900k SP
2) Maybe 900k SP
3) Maybe 900k SP
4) Maybe 30M SP at the very most

The reason for the jump in that last case is because we're talking about a scenario that has little to no correspondence to how the actual game works: an even-number match-up with a very specific selection of ships that is centred around rules about what is efficient and what isn't in order to create team balance in the equipment use. At that point, you want to squeeze every bit out of the ship with skills because there is no other way to compensate for the ships themselves, and 30M is roughly the amount of SP it takes to max out any given tournament ship (and even that is too much — it's 30M for every bit of equipment maxed out on a higher-end ship, and most pieces you've skilled for at that point will never be used in any kind of sane fit).

Incidentally, the tournament SP demonstrates that not only is it possible to “catch up” — it's inevitable. There are only ever 5 skill levels. Once you have them, you have caught up. Once you have them for everything you can fit on a ship, you have caught up with everyone who has, does, and ever will fly that ship… in fact, you've surpassed the vast majority of them (because training all to 5 is a horribly inefficient use of your time and SP so they will not have pushed it that far).

As others have mentioned, once you have your MWD and tackling equipment — the two pieces of kit needed to actually catch someone — everything else is just a matter of finding the right match-ups, both in terms of who you fly with and of who you fly against. The advantage older players have is that they have their team assembled already, and they have a good sense of what they can take on and what they can't.

If they can fit a web, point and a mwd they are useful in battle.

So well said. I am pressing the like button as hard as I can and literally throwing cash at my screen right now.

The depressing part is there will always be a overwhelming majority of players who will continue to convince the newbros that everything is pointless, and unless they spend a trillion ISK on some 2004 character who has most everything trained to level 5 - they will never be able to actually enjoy the fun that is PVP combat.

Of course, this is the same group of players still mining in high-sec since 2004 :P

HAH I KNEW IT!


Ok so honestly I was half expecting you to not even have thermodynamics injected but deep down I knew you wouldnt have it at V.


Quite possibly the best pvp skill in the game and at 149m sp you still haven't bothered to V it. Amazing.


I guess to answer your point, at 149m sp theres plenty of engagements you'll simply lose because the other guy has thermo V and you don't, so yea looks like they can still catch up to you.

Granted the catch point is that (other than you actually getting thermo V already) you're simply at a point where you can't add another SP into improving a ship, and some one like me who has a paltry sum of SP compared to you can fly sp wise every bit as well as you in several ships. (well better because I have thermo V)

Edit: OK looked again how did you make to 149m and not max out gunnery supports? This is amazing.

Extra potential heat cycles wins and loses so many engagements in a not f1 monkey fight. Its an amazing skill, think of every time you burnt out a module by not cutting it one cycle shorter and then realize that with thermo V you probably wouldnt have

The thing with that argument is that it's usually made by new players, not by experienced pvpers.

There is no real fault in that. New players with low skills look at what they want to be able to fit and it's understandable that they are frustrated at the limitations. However, that view is also reflective of the lack of knowledge about what is really important to be successful in pvp - player attitude and approach.

Skill will always come, but a highly skilled character in the hands of a poor attitude player will never be a good pvper.

Expectation as a new player is the one thing that everyone can set at a reasonable level and then build from there.

So like Tippia said 900k is the stating point.

There is nothing that stops a player from pvping with a new character except their own attitude.

Almost none, actually. Ok, sure… I have yet to use any of the cap skills, but that's mainly for a future use case once my silly corp mates get up to speed.
And all of those were mainly just a case of “meh, it's unlocked, might as well get it to IV”.

No, the important skills are there, and again, you're pointing to skills that would have been a waste of SP at V. The differences are utterly minute and trivially compensated for by proper flying or by simply having other options at your disposal.

2% more damage disappears in the margin of error on hit chances, so does 4% more falloff. But again, opportunity cost: how will those 2.5M extra SP in gunnery help you when you can't even target my ship (which is what I bought with the same SP)? A 4% speed boost (or, more accurately, speed boost boost) might make enough of a difference, but at a cost of 2½ weeks when it can be easily compensated for in other ways? No, not worth it.

Not really, no — in fact, that's pretty much the driving principle of the entire build: being able to fly and fit any conceivable combination of kit — but you're getting closer to the real gap here…

I disagree...
In many cases an AB is sufficient - the distances you need to cover quickly are often short enough that 1km/sec is enough.
I would add Long distance Targetting for sensor boosters to the list though - fast lock on gates for example - for anything above solo.