EVE General Discussion

I believe it was Socrates who said that insults are the best way to prove your point.

The game has been out for 11 years. That's more than enough time for the gaming public to have a crack at it. There are plenty of gamers out there and they aren't flocking to EVE. If you've got some big suggestion about how to change that, I'd like to hear it. I bet Hilmar would too, because he sure hasn't thought of a way. (If they don't have access to computers or the internet or the money for them, gaming isn't really part of the equation. Talk about dumb statements. Flip that thought on its head: 2.8 billion people do have access to a computer and the internet and they aren't playing EVE.)

If they have tried it and liked it and kept with it, they're here. If they liked it but didn't stay, they're not helping the company's bottom line, but maybe they'll come back. If they didn't like it, they're not coming back. There's a trickling in of new players, but it's not a huge number. At best, the numbers suggest a certain equilibrium. If the playerbase is seduced by some other space game, I don't see how the equilibrium can hold.

Revenue? Why don't you talk about profit instead? Right now the only people making money off of EVE are salaried employees, the bank that holds CCP's loans, and the RMT'ers. This is your idea of success? Just glancing at the endorsements in the financials posted on their page, shows a steady decline in profits even if you leave out the WoD losses. It also shows that they pull around 66 mil in revenues per year, not 100 mil. But profits aren't really the issue here. I'm okay with people doing what they love for a job, even if no one is getting rich. Investors don't usually feel like that, though. Neither do banks.

To return to my original point, it's working for now. But a game that never grows, with a cast of players that never changes, can't last forever. It needs a constant stream of new players and changing situations, especially in a sandbox, where the players are providing content for each other.

EVE has beaten the odds, it would seem. Personally, I think that's because EVE is more of a hobby than typical games, which are played for diversion. It's taken this long for the playerbase to act out the story that has formed the current EVE universe. It's hard to see how that story can change enough to be fresh and engaging again. Or to see how EVE will become less of a second job (grinding or fighting, it's still a serious time investment, especially for corp leadership). Or to see how new content will be anything other than a new type of ISK generation activity. I'm holding out hope for Valkyrie, but that is looking increasingly sketchy.

Insulting me and arguing against the reality of the numbers doesn't make EVE less of a grind, or more engaging, or more appealing to a wider audience, or less of a time sink. It doesn't reduce TiDi. It doesn't improve the NPE. It doesn't reduce the learning curve. It doesn't help CCP provide the big battles it uses to sell the game. If you want to end the "eve is dying" talk, use all that free time you spend trying to win internet arguments doing something useful. Go out and convince new people to give it a try. You're going to need to convince a lot more people than just your friends and family, though. So get to work.

I'm of the opinion that no matter what you believe about EvE's health, it could probably double the number of people actually playing it if new people knew what the hell was going on. There's a ton of stuff EvE offers, yet it doesn't tell you about any of it. You have to rely on third party websites and helpful strangers to tell you about a lot of the content. And EvE is very, very short on helpful strangers.

No you can't have my stuff. No, I'm not going anywhere, I happen to really enjoy my time here in EVE. But EvE could probably do better with presenting information to new players about what PvE and PvP content there is to enjoy around here.

The reason EVE has been dying since about 2.5 seconds after it's launch in 2003 is the same reason bums sit on street corners with signs proclaiming 'The end is near'. Like EVE, Humanity itself has been just about to end for the last 10,000 years or so. Any moment now and BOOM, asteroid.

Not knowing what's going to happen leads many people to a state of anxiety, especially when it's about something they've invested time in (thus all the "omg CCP has to do something now" despite no indications of any major downturn). It can be seen EVERY TIME someone even talks about a new game being developed. One day I'm going to make an actual list, but off the top of my head: Black Prophecy, Jumpgate, STO, SWG, SWTOR, all of these EVE-killers ended up not even causing a blip despite the fact that most of them are MAJOR/established Sci-Fi IPs.

As far as I know only Diablo 3 had any kind of affect, and that was very short. The only EVE-KILLER that ever damn near killed the game starts with a "C" and ends with "CP" (I mean, would could imagine that $1000 space jeans wouldn't go over well??? lol).

Personally, I don't share that anxiety. I've been playing since June of 2007, I've spent so much time playing EVE that if i spent that same amount of time doing something productive I'd not only have a Doctorate of some kind,I would have probably figured out how to make an actual warp drive and would be able to spend my weekends ratting for real somewhere near Proxima Centauri. I love EVE so much that it has survived 1 marriage and will probably survive the 2nd lol.

And if it goes away tomorrow, I'll miss it and suffer some severe (and actual) withdrawal symptoms. And that's it, life will go on. At the end of the day EVE Online is a video game. A ground breaking, history making, one of a kind video game that's brought thousands of us together in a real way, but a video game nonetheless.

All of which I think is moot because EVE is crazy resilient in a way that I don't think any of us can comprehend.

Why would I suggest something that is unnecessary? EVE is a subscription MMO, it doesn't need billions of people to play it for the company that makes it to keep it going. 75 million dollars of revenue in 2013, for an 11 year old game that MOST people who try it don't like. Hell, If I had something that brought in 75 mil a year i wouldn't give a straight damn who didn't like it either lol.

Also, there it is again, they nonsensical "That's more than enough time for the gaming public to have a crack at it" You are aware that we are on Earth and on Earth people are born, live and die right? You are also aware of course that gamers die everyday and new gamers are born everyday, that "the gaming public" is not some static thing.

You can find people playing right now who have been gamers for years and hadn't heard of EVE till they started playing 1,2 or 3 years ago. The idea that EVE has exhausted some supply of human beings is stupid. and since you've already demonstrated some oversensitivity, let me clarify that I'm not calling you stupid, I'm saying the idea itself is stupid.



Yep, you missed the last 11 years of EVE's existence. SWG, STO, SWTOR, Jumpgate and Black Prophecy would like a word with you in private (at least the 3 of those games that still exist would lol).



This is not true. A game needs new players but it does not need a constant influx of XBOX sperglords to keep it afloat. The QUALITY gamers that stick with EVE are the ones who have kept EVE alive,



This is that nonsensical anxiety I speak of. EVE isn't going anywhere. Highlighted the part where you revealed your motivation.

It's been my observation that being an "EVE is dying" type correlates greatly to being a "EVE isn't living up to it's potential" type. In other words, the people who proclaim that EVE is dying are the people who WANT it to die (or come close to it) so that CCP see's the light and makes the game into something that it isn't. That kind of pessimism is not only not useful, but it's been disproved time and again for the last 11 years. It will be again with these new games coming out , afther the hype dies down people will learn that even if they are great games, they aren't EVE. There is only one place to get EVE, and that's EVE.

First of all, who gives a **** about a "wider audience"? I play this game specifically because it does not appeal to the average pukestain excuse for a "gamer". I would be willing to bet a billion isk that I'm not alone in that sentiment either. Exclusivity is a *good* thing, bro.

Secondly, I already proselytize the game to a pretty decent degree. I have one family member playing the game constantly, one playing it off and on but still subbed, and I have convinced no less than three of my friends to play who have remained subbed.

And that's more than someone like you will ever contribute to EVE with your whining.

Oh, and you need to stop thinking that WoW is the measuring stick for success. EVE does not need a legion of CoD babies or WoW zombies to be successful as a game.

World of Warcraft introduced many people, including me, to MMOs. Eventually, we get tired of WoW and will try something else. That's my story and here I am, new player subscribed to EVE for what I expect to be an extended duration.

I don't think it is accurate to say that anyone who wanted to try EVE would have already done so by now. WoW subscriptions are in steep decline, so that's a good chunk of players that might be interested in another MMO. Also, beyond older players, young gamers will pursue their gaming interests and some might end up here.

For a game that generated $23M of cash flow from operating activities (from $74M of gross revenue, which is up $10M from last year), EVE is very healthy financially and won't be shutting down anytime soon.

There has been some really good player input in why every thing is as it is; low activitity caused by scaling up cause by bad implenmentations. It was a downwards spiral that kept going down and is very slowly taking off speed due the new overhauls but the essention is that its pointless mopping up the waterspils over the bucket if you dont fix the leaking tap.
Nuff said; ccp should figur out their own stuff or atleast reward me for "free" input.

I agree with the other points, but this was a good thing, really. Only one set of the barges (Procurer/Skiff) got a massive tank, the others are still pretty flimsy. Provides more options for the miner - play it smart for less risk, or play it risky for more reward.

And there are plenty of hisec miner ganks on a regular basis, the existence of entities like CODE can attest to that. Plenty of miners still opt for the bigger ore hold or the higher yield that the larger barges offer, and they still get zapped.

The threat of a gank is a good thing to have around, as is the possibility of defending against such a gank.

Ah, yeah.

Stupid whiny manchildren.

Exactly. Meanwhile people (sometimes including CCP) ignore the human nature aspects that lead to the 'problems' in the 1st place. The 'problem' was never sov, it's PEOPLE. Players will find ways to turn any system to their advantage and make other players despise the things they will have to do to beat them. That's why we're on SOV version 4 (or is it 5) and still no one is happy. It may even be that there IS no possible good/fair SOV system in an open world game like EVE (where numbers will always prevail).

But don't ever tell that to the SOV theory-craters (the EFT-Warriors of space conflict lol) who honestly believe they can come up with a system to adequately counter human nature to the point where continual conflict and uncertainty (ie what everyone says they want null sec to be) becomes preferred over comfort and cooperation (ie what everyone really wants but can't admit or even understand).