Crime & Punishment

Awwww! Thank you so very very much!

I'm not sure where you saw the suggestion that guns should have been involved. It's pretty simple though, if you can't turn up to an official event you had committed to showing up for, and instead decide to act like a bunch of children, why should people expect your word to mean anything ever?

But you're right, yes, it's a video game. So you can do whatever you want, whenever you want, meaning that permits mean precisely nothing, since if you want to ignore them you can. The code and whether or not is fairly adhered to is irrelevant, because it's nothing but a scam made up to get newbies to pay for their gankers ships. The idea that it's an actual held belief and a strict set of standards is ludicrous, since as you pointed out, it's a video game.

Lol, yes, because any time you feel like getting a gank and the only people around have permits, you make up a reason to invalidate it. It's even been said in this very thread that the act of being able to be ganked invalidates a permit as you need to be tanked. So again, permits are irrelevant. The only people that wouldn't be ganked while having a permit wouldn't require them because code members would be incapable of ganking them regardless.

lol, where did I say that?
I don't think it should be fair or safe, but that's completely beside the point of whether or not a bunch of gankers will abide by rules laid out for a made up cult. You'll say whatever you can to convince the noobs of your scam and that permits are a requirement, because they pay for your ships. If the miners simply didn't pay for permits you'd see a lot lot less code gankers. Then if they tanked their ships instead, the gankers there are would have nobody left to gank.

Confirming that a huge amount of our money comes from permits, and that if you simply inform every new player to not purchase one something will somehow change.

You think you get it, you are .... 20% on the way to getting it, but you have become derailed. I'll try to help you.

Once you hit the "cult" part you really got lost. What do you think is more likely, we are a group of players who enjoy parody, irony, "tounge-in-cheek" comedy, or are forming a massive religious cult centered about internet spaceships?

The reality is, and this is the part you are going to have a hard time accepting - we give permit holders every single benefit of the doubt. They get a polite convo or a poke in local to make sure they are at the keyboard. We assume they are following the CODE, and the only time we will fire on them is if clear evidence is presented that shows they are not. Think: false permit / away from keyboard / smack talking in local.

We want them to tank their ships. That's the point :P We take the scrubby angry miner who is forever doomed to a lifetime of misery and oblivion that results in them just canceling their account due to getting bored with playing EVE like it is a interactive mining simulation, and we carefully mold them into the type of player worthy of the game - one that, in the words of CCP, understands how to protect their assets. If you can't keep it safe, you don't deserve to have it in the first place. Embrace that HTFU.

I hope this helped clear some things up for you. Please, if you take anything from this conversation - consider how little we charge for a mining permit. It's not quite even the cost of a single Tech 2 Catalyst, which we literally burn thousands of a day. Do you really think they are an actual source of funding for us? Or, have you considered the permit as more of a "litmus test" to check players sense of entitlement? There's nothing quite as funny as watching a player in a untanked hulk literally undock and lose ten of them in a single day while raging in local about how he would rather suffer billions and billions in losses then "pay for a extortion racket" and how "high-sec is free for everyone!" and "honor" and "bushido" or other random New Order bingo squares.

Stop thinking "cult" - start thinking "players having fun creating emergent gameplay" - once you get there, you will start to understand who we are.

Of course it would make a dent, since the shareholder cash doesn't go to the individual members while the permit cash does.

And lol, you don;t kill bots, not even remotely. You kill untanked random nubs. Arguably the people you kill have the LEAST bot aspirant behaviour, since anyone mining with bots or isboxer will be mining in tanked ships with a dedicated hauler since it's far more efficient. Killing a guy sitting around in a single retriever solo, that's not stopping bots. What that's saying is "if you aren't a bot and you aren't multiboxing skiffs and procurers while half-afk, we'll gank you". Congratulations. You support botters.

New order aren't a threat to anything, the permit doesn't change that. As I pointed out before it's been made clear that if you CAN be ganked, then your permit is void. Therefore, a permit is not required, since for it to be valid you must be tanked enough to not get ganked anyway. I'd rather not pay you a single isk and still not be in any way threatened by you.

Funnily enough, a couple of month back I afk isboxer mined right next to you (you specifically that is, not just code in general) a few times while you were ganking, completely permit free. It's a great way to grab those pesky lowends while playing PS4.

You are, and I'm quoting myself here, a "made up cult". You RP a cult with the same principles and methods as you would expect to see from a cult. You extend slightly beyond that though as Pedro has demonstrated by starting to talking about the war on bots. Bots do not exist in game, they are an out of game thing, not an RP thing, so there's clear evidence that at least some of your membership are claiming to have an out of game agenda.

Of course I'm going to have a hard time accepting that, since its bull. You're saying that to try to defend your group. Of course you are going to say that. The fact remains that this is how the code is run:
So permits are irrelevant. If you can't be ganked, you don't need a permit.

No, you take the nubby miner in his single ship and you blow him up. So he buys a tanked ship and earns slightly less. Then he sees that he can afk quite a bit in this one, so he gets a few more on the go. Then he thinks "hey, if I just buy isboxer for $5 a month, I can run a whole fleet of these!". Shazzam, you're in part responsible for the rise of multiboxed afk miner farms.

I think I'll continue to think "guys who don't understand how eve works" and pay you precisely zip. Ganking people who are trying to actively mine in nooblike ways is in fact causing the exact thing you claim to be against. If you wanted to actually make a change, you'd start working in bigger groups and target the haulers and orcas of multibox and bot miners rather than going after soft targets that 9 times out of 10 are just clueless noobs trying to make their first battleship for "free".

I am afraid your logic is flawed. You tanked your miners because people like us enforce the risk vs. reward balance that this game us built upon. You assessed the risk, and rightly put yourself in tanked ships to give your mining op the best chance of success. That potential cost for risky behaviour is what we provide. Without us, everyone would fit for max yield/cargo and those aspects of the game would be even less interesting than they are now.

Your actions prove we are a threat, or at least a perceived threat by you, or why did you bother tanking your multiboxing fleet?

And although this is getting off-topic from the OP - OP, yes we do honour permits - I would say that if you were mining next to me a few months ago you may have even witnessed first-hand part of my epic battle against the botters, somehting that you claim we don't do. You can read about it on your own time here: http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/07/eves-last-best-hope.html

lol, that's not how it works. You don't gank them and they suddenly go "ooh, I am sav4ed! I will immediately start playing with due care and attention!". They go "well that didn't work for me, what works for others? Plexing 50 accounts though isboxer? OK let's go!". The best you can hope for from the majority is that they do exactly the same thing again but in a procurer.

Too much drivel.

I'll TL;DR this properly for everyone:

DJ owns.


The end.


^_^

You sound upset. Would you like to discuss your current loss situation so that we might be able to resolve this. I'd also suggest purchasing a permit as well. DJ can confirm that we do in fact honor permits, a few days ago a recently permit holder greeted us in local, and advised him of our activities. Later, it appeared he was AFK, so being the nice crew we are, we sent a convo. He accepted and was stated that he was doing some industrial things. He said he was sorry, docked up like he needed to, and then we all had cake.