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So why are people still running level 4 missions?
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-09-05 14:57:37 UTC
Incursion fleets get all nancy when you quit half way through because somethng in real life interefered - and if you do it too often will blacklist you.

Mission rats wait patiently for your return.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#22 - 2014-09-05 19:56:48 UTC
Now, to compare some numbers. Mine are atypical, as I am an incursion FC with a reasonable cross community reputation (I think), but show the sort of numbers possible for incursions, using only fleets where I started the formation process.

Time spent forming fleet, outside US prime time: average, of the last 20 attempts, 17 successes averaging 45minutes and 3 failures averaging 2 hours waiting for the last thing we needed

Average length of time in Non-primetime fleet: 4.2 hours

Average isk/hr in such fleets while active: 102M/hr in VG, 104 in AS, no HQ fleet outside US prime

So, if you divide the time spent forming a fleet amongst a reasonable span of time, the effects become less and less. These numbers are intentionally for outside primetime, and for a relatively small community (HELIX Incursions) to try to balance them for accessibility.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#23 - 2014-09-06 19:33:37 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Now, to compare some numbers. Mine are atypical, as I am an incursion FC with a reasonable cross community reputation (I think), but show the sort of numbers possible for incursions, using only fleets where I started the formation process.

Time spent forming fleet, outside US prime time: average, of the last 20 attempts, 17 successes averaging 45minutes and 3 failures averaging 2 hours waiting for the last thing we needed

Average length of time in Non-primetime fleet: 4.2 hours

Average isk/hr in such fleets while active: 102M/hr in VG, 104 in AS, no HQ fleet outside US prime

So, if you divide the time spent forming a fleet amongst a reasonable span of time, the effects become less and less. These numbers are intentionally for outside primetime, and for a relatively small community (HELIX Incursions) to try to balance them for accessibility.


So about 80 million an hour not including LP or travel time.

4284 minutes run time * 102 mil an hour = 7.28bil
7.28 bil / 90 hours total time invested = 80 mil.

Thank you for your excellent numbers good sir, very informative. You wouldnt happen to have the total LP for those incursions also, would you?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#24 - 2014-09-07 04:40:07 UTC
1k-1.2k per lp i believe is average conversion rate. there is a channel in game where people buy concord LP. cant think of name but its something like CONCORD LP or w/e.

Pras Phil.
Abominare
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#25 - 2014-09-08 07:04:40 UTC
Paikis wrote:
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?


Because burners, you can nearly just chain doing just burners and make around 150-160m average an hour.
Sentenced 1989
#26 - 2014-09-08 18:42:08 UTC
As somebody said

L4's can be done solo, I can do anywhere between 60-90 mill per hour doing them with 2 battleships + noctis
I can walk away any time to go AFK or go for a smoke
I don't need to move around and carry stuff

Incursion on other hand are safer (logie catches you if you DC)
However, you can't go AFK at any given moment
You make more ISK, but you have to calculate how many time you spend moving between focuses, waiting for fleet to form up or to get off wait list in HQ fleets, etc...

Having said all that already, I like doing Vanguards since I can do it with group of friends and use teamspeak, but if I can't use comms or there is chance I'll have to do family stuff I opt for hour-two of missions.

The Incursion Guild

Epic Arc Guide
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#27 - 2014-09-08 20:29:08 UTC
Abominare wrote:
Paikis wrote:
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?


Because burners, you can nearly just chain doing just burners and make around 150-160m average an hour.

well not really.. I have done round 30 missions since the patch and had one burner.. not a great sample size.. but in no way implies you going to be able to chain them in anyway.

... What next ??
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-09-08 20:50:25 UTC
GordonO wrote:
Abominare wrote:
Paikis wrote:
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?


Because burners, you can nearly just chain doing just burners and make around 150-160m average an hour.

well not really.. I have done round 30 missions since the patch and had one burner.. not a great sample size.. but in no way implies you going to be able to chain them in anyway.

I have gotten two burner missions in a row a couple of times, but never three in a row. They really can't be farmed.
Abominare
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#29 - 2014-09-08 23:37:51 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
GordonO wrote:
Abominare wrote:
Paikis wrote:
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?


Because burners, you can nearly just chain doing just burners and make around 150-160m average an hour.

well not really.. I have done round 30 missions since the patch and had one burner.. not a great sample size.. but in no way implies you going to be able to chain them in anyway.

I have gotten two burner missions in a row a couple of times, but never three in a row. They really can't be farmed.


??????

No, I am actually doing this 80% of my mission load is now burners only with just the fastest of other missions accepted whenever standings swing too low.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#30 - 2014-09-09 03:19:31 UTC
Abominare wrote:


??????

No, I am actually doing this 80% of my mission load is now burners only with just the fastest of other missions accepted whenever standings swing too low.


Me too, that 9.00 plus to Sisters of EVE is coming in REAL handy right now lol. I still do Recon, Cargo Delviery, and Dread Pirate Scarlet among a very few others. Oh, and stop the thief.
Abominare
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#31 - 2014-09-09 03:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Abominare
Jenn aSide wrote:
Abominare wrote:


??????

No, I am actually doing this 80% of my mission load is now burners only with just the fastest of other missions accepted whenever standings swing too low.


Me too, that 9.00 plus to Sisters of EVE is coming in REAL handy right now lol. I still do Recon, Cargo Delviery, and Dread Pirate Scarlet among a very few others. Oh, and stop the thief.



I have poop luck with stop the thief, I just do attack of the drones and blitz the nearest chain. I always manage to get multiwebbed 500m too far from the stupid cargo box.
Oxide Ammar
#32 - 2014-09-09 06:34:10 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Incursion fleets get all nancy when you quit half way through because somethng in real life interefered - and if you do it too often will blacklist you.

Mission rats wait patiently for your return.


It's same when you are in middle of serious CTA, Incursion fleets fills their fleets very quickly so it's polite to leave by the end of the site unless your dad is gonna axe your head if you stayed another min in front of your PC..which is another issue for you need to work around.Roll

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-09-09 06:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Luwc
Paikis wrote:
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?


Less chance of getting ganked
no 1b+ investment
still very profitable if you know how
also more fun than "tama tama tama niarja niarja"

and you don't haven to listen to a bunch of carebearing nerds going off how bad CODE is.

edit : also AFK ishtar or domi.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#34 - 2014-09-09 07:41:14 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Now, to compare some numbers. Mine are atypical, as I am an incursion FC with a reasonable cross community reputation (I think), but show the sort of numbers possible for incursions, using only fleets where I started the formation process.

Time spent forming fleet, outside US prime time: average, of the last 20 attempts, 17 successes averaging 45minutes and 3 failures averaging 2 hours waiting for the last thing we needed

Average length of time in Non-primetime fleet: 4.2 hours

Average isk/hr in such fleets while active: 102M/hr in VG, 104 in AS, no HQ fleet outside US prime

So, if you divide the time spent forming a fleet amongst a reasonable span of time, the effects become less and less. These numbers are intentionally for outside primetime, and for a relatively small community (HELIX Incursions) to try to balance them for accessibility.


So about 80 million an hour not including LP or travel time.

4284 minutes run time * 102 mil an hour = 7.28bil
7.28 bil / 90 hours total time invested = 80 mil.

Thank you for your excellent numbers good sir, very informative. You wouldnt happen to have the total LP for those incursions also, would you?


On the very rough order of 300k from the VGs and assaults used for this. Sorry, but my LP tracking sheet is figured entirely differently, as its mostly about keeping my isk/lp over 2k.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#35 - 2014-09-09 08:02:20 UTC
Abominare wrote:
I have poop luck with stop the thief, I just do attack of the drones and blitz the nearest chain. I always manage to get multiwebbed 500m too far from the stupid cargo box.

Buy a big stack of Reports from NPC sell orders and keep them in your agent station. They're not mission-specific items, so if you have a stash in your hangar all you need to do is pop the named BS and then warp out and turn in the mission.
Abominare
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#36 - 2014-09-09 08:58:45 UTC
Skyler Hawk wrote:
Abominare wrote:
I have poop luck with stop the thief, I just do attack of the drones and blitz the nearest chain. I always manage to get multiwebbed 500m too far from the stupid cargo box.

Buy a big stack of Reports from NPC sell orders and keep them in your agent station. They're not mission-specific items, so if you have a stash in your hangar all you need to do is pop the named BS and then warp out and turn in the mission.



Whelp I feel silly now.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#37 - 2014-09-10 12:40:17 UTC
Abominare wrote:
Skyler Hawk wrote:
Abominare wrote:
I have poop luck with stop the thief, I just do attack of the drones and blitz the nearest chain. I always manage to get multiwebbed 500m too far from the stupid cargo box.

Buy a big stack of Reports from NPC sell orders and keep them in your agent station. They're not mission-specific items, so if you have a stash in your hangar all you need to do is pop the named BS and then warp out and turn in the mission.



Whelp I feel silly now.


Don't feel bad. A0 few years ago (after an extended stay in null sec, coming back to high sec missions was kind of like going home after a tour in Vietnam lol) I lost a Tengu doing that mission because I didn't know you didn't need those specific reports but could just buy a stack of the item off the market. I felt dumb as hell AND had to retrain Offensive V lol
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2014-09-10 14:12:09 UTC
Are we talking about the same mission? It's brilliant. Warp vargur/kronos to 0. Engage murderdeathkill mode. Warp off 5 minutes later.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-09-10 17:09:10 UTC
Paikis wrote:
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?


Because every once in a while they are fun.

If you are focusing on ISK/hr and not on enjoying yourself, you are doing it wrong.
Noferatu
Academy of Arms Distribution and Manufacturing
#40 - 2014-09-10 17:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Noferatu
I use two chars for L4 missions, with clones in each of the four racial regions (although actually you can do the following with, say, Amarr and Metropolis). I have several L4 agents nearby or in-station in each region, and use RR Domis/Ishtars or specific fitted boats for all blitzes and faction missions.

When standings to a faction dip too far, I j/c across and run/blitz for storylines then mostly chain faction missions (which are extremely lucrative) until I have to j/c to where standings have dipped again elsewhere.

It takes a lot of time, ISK and preparation to get standings right in the first place; to research and find the optimal (or just plain preferred) L4 mission-running area in each region; to arrange jump clones, and amass the not insubstantial regional assets you need.

It started out as an idle thought, became a project, and took me eight months to sort out. But I can categorically say that I earn a great deal more than I used to running incs.