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Crius state of play

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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#161 - 2014-09-06 12:49:18 UTC
Qinby wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Qinby wrote:

Wouldn't that just result in that the winning bid ends up with the bid with the highest maximum BUT with the "smallest" possible margin?

In other Words the only effect would be to let the Winner to get of cheaper.

wrong, this is a well-known solution and the point is that it discourages doing anything but putting your actual max price you want to pay and then waiting for the auction to finish

as far as i know you can do that now :)



Winner Winner Chicken Dinner
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#162 - 2014-09-06 13:42:56 UTC
Qinby wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Qinby wrote:

Wouldn't that just result in that the winning bid ends up with the bid with the highest maximum BUT with the "smallest" possible margin?

In other Words the only effect would be to let the Winner to get of cheaper.

wrong, this is a well-known solution and the point is that it discourages doing anything but putting your actual max price you want to pay and then waiting for the auction to finish

as far as i know you can do that now :)

right now it's a non-optimal strategy

like i said this is a well-known solution and you are basically sitting here saying "metal? float? don't be absurd a ship can only be made of wood"
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#163 - 2014-09-06 14:09:21 UTC
bidding your actual highest price in an auction like this means that you will derive no benefit whatsoever from your teams

accordingly it is an immensely dumb bidding strategy
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#164 - 2014-09-06 15:11:12 UTC
I bid right at what i think it is worth to my competitors
Matcha Mosburger
Matsuko Holding
#165 - 2014-09-06 18:21:37 UTC
Not sure if it was this way before Crius - but in other T2 hull not matching each other topics. The Minmatar Black Ops is the only Black Ops hip that doesn't require 3 Capital Jump Drives. Or at least it doesn't on the BPC (haven't built one no not sure if it's UI only).
Circumstantial Evidence
#166 - 2014-09-06 23:58:34 UTC
Matcha Mosburger wrote:
Not sure if it was this way before Crius - but in other T2 hull not matching each other topics. The Minmatar Black Ops is the only Black Ops hip that doesn't require 3 Capital Jump Drives. Or at least it doesn't on the BPC (haven't built one no not sure if it's UI only).
Read first post in thread by CCP Greyscale: known problem and will be fixed "soon."
Circumstantial Evidence
#167 - 2014-09-07 00:08:12 UTC
I have not delivered some invention jobs started just before Crius / completed after patch. All jobs included Decyrptors. I delivered ONE of them, and the UI showed consumed datacore materials in the job... but no "extra" items (Decryptor expected.) Should I expect this? Will those jobs get decryptor enhancements? I remember reading a player comment that decryptor use may have been lost in the transition to Crius.
Malwadas Kadmos
Make-EVE-Great-Again
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#168 - 2014-09-07 09:37:22 UTC
positive:
-awesome job with the new industry ui!
-teams are a good concept

negative:
-bidding on teams, everyone who cant be in game when an auction runs out is at a disatvantage compared to those who can(maybe use a automatic biding system like e-bay where you place your max bid?). there should also be a sniper rule, maybe 5 min ? if someone outbids you in the last second you cant react.
-would be nice to have a new industry skill which reduces the install cost of jobs, since those are very high now.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#169 - 2014-09-07 10:59:43 UTC
Malwadas Kadmos wrote:

-would be nice to have a new industry skill which reduces the install cost of jobs, since those are very high now.

This won't happen as it would become a mandatory train to V before starting industry like the old ME skill was and they have said they don't want to do that.
Also for note, the install costs are actually very low. Real world manufacturing the costs are often 90% of your final price, materials only 10%, EVE it's still the materials being most of your cost.
Angie Chatter
#170 - 2014-09-07 20:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Angie Chatter
Just noticed some annoying filter problem regarding the "inventory Selection" filter tab for BPC. I have organized my BPC in containers, but since one container can only hold 1000 bpc i need multiple of those. I also tried organize the containers into separate devisions, but the filter tab won't show any divisions to filter anymore if all BPC are inside containers.

What i wanted was having all my containers of a certain type sitting in a separate devision and than select the devision so i all BPC inside this devision gets used. This is not possible atm and i need to manually juggle containers around so they don't show up.

So please add a way to filter by name on all BPC inside all containers inside a selected devision.

PS: What would also help is the option to use "*" in the name search field, so we can have partial matches of multiples name parts. Often a name-part is not unique and u now need to copy&paste the full unique string.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#171 - 2014-09-08 17:09:35 UTC
We're very much aware of the sniping issues, don't worry.

Czeris wrote:
Why are the bpcs found in data/relic sites still me 0/0?

This feels like an oversight.

The ones that were in my inventory from pre crius were updated with enhanced me/pe just like all the other invention bpcs, but any new ones i find are 0/0 making them significantly worse than any invented ones. These bpcs were a nice, random bonus (since the vast majority are useless) but now they have all become largely worthless.



We discussed this and I think came to the conclusion that we should probably leave them as-is, as we'd prefer invented BPCs to be the primary source. We're aware that this devalues some sites somewhat, and it's something we will likely revisit after further invention changes are done.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#172 - 2014-09-08 17:35:34 UTC
Jon Lucien wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)


Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom)

I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify.

The formula should be
[Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax]

For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34
I'm using 1 run for simplicity.
System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api
2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2
Our Tax rate is 15% (1.15)

145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up.

Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk

Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?1

4003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5

It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game



Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost.

(You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.)
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#173 - 2014-09-08 18:07:20 UTC
By the way, we recently upgraded a caldari outpost, here: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/3QE-9Q

This has three factory improvements (don't ask) and should get -3% materials, but does not. I think that they're not working on any non-amarr.
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#174 - 2014-09-08 18:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aryth
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Jon Lucien wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)


Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom)

I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify.

The formula should be
[Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax]

For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34
I'm using 1 run for simplicity.
System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api
2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2
Our Tax rate is 15% (1.15)

145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up.

Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk

Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?1

4003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5

It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game



Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost.

(You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.)


Oh dear. This will change quite abit of our collected data then.

PS. Hopefully this gets enough eyeballs and it dramatically changes peoples planning.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#175 - 2014-09-08 18:19:43 UTC
I guess we are only a few weeks away from outproducing jita!
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#176 - 2014-09-08 18:31:58 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I guess we are only a few weeks away from outproducing jita!


Obligatory "CCP Greyscale, please fix local mineral supply in null" comment here Cool
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#177 - 2014-09-08 18:42:30 UTC
yeah man if we had decent minerals we could do great things (instead i think all of that is t2 ship production)
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#178 - 2014-09-08 19:01:07 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I guess we are only a few weeks away from outproducing jita!


Obligatory "CCP Greyscale, please fix local mineral supply in null" comment here Cool


Dont care about local mineral supply, that will never be enough anyway. Just want to be able to mass compress ores that doesn't involve 100 freighter trips to a pos every god damn day
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2014-09-08 19:32:54 UTC
Firvain wrote:
Dont care about local mineral supply, that will never be enough anyway.


Local supply will never be enough for all supercap production, but at the moment it's not even enough for reasonable t1 production. (majorly short on mex/iso)

No one cares about titans anyways! (Death to all supercaps!)
Mina Tors
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#180 - 2014-09-08 19:45:17 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Jon Lucien wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)


Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom)

I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify.

The formula should be
[Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax]

For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34
I'm using 1 run for simplicity.
System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api
2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2
Our Tax rate is 15% (1.15)

145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up.

Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk

Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?1

4003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5

It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game



Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost.

(You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.)


CCP: what happens when a system (hs or ls) has different types of stations and there is only one system index? Is the system index returned by the api incorrect?