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[Feature] Rapid Missile Launcher Update?
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1 - 2014-08-31 16:11:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Yes CCP Rise, we haven't forgotten... We're still waiting on you and CCP to make good on the commitment to address the 35-second ammunition swap time on rapid missile launchers. I'm assuming that at this point there are some inherent technical difficulties with implementing this, so I'm going to propose an alternate solution: Drop the reload time from the current 35 seconds to 20 seconds.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Croowdrio
Astrometric Aggression
#2 - 2014-08-31 16:21:56 UTC
If this isn't going to be changed maybe a rig or mod? It is understandable about the current time but i wish there was a way to decrease it somehow.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3 - 2014-08-31 16:46:32 UTC
Croowdrio wrote:
If this isn't going to be changed maybe a rig or mod? It is understandable about the current time but i wish there was a way to decrease it somehow.

I'm opposed to a rig because as it now stands these are needed for rigors and flares - unless in their infinite wisdom they finally look at a low and/or medium slot ballistic enhancer. In theory, In that scenario, the idea of a 100-calibration rig that reduces reload times on rapid launchers by 5 seconds per rig (not stacking penalized) has a lot of merit.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#4 - 2014-08-31 17:11:14 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Yes CCP Rise, we haven't forgotten... We're still waiting on you and CCP to make good on the commitment to address the 35-second ammunition swap time on rapid missile launchers. I'm assuming that at this point there are some inherent technical difficulties with implementing this, so I'm going to propose an alternate solution: Drop the reload time from the current 35 seconds to 20 seconds.


Don't use rapid missiles but a 35 second reload seems unusual given the reload times of other weapons systems so +1 to a change.

Another thing here I cannot see how there could be a technical limitation to implementing a change it. We are talking software here simply change the timer value and adjust the display code to match. I mean it is not like CCP actually has to figure out the mechanics/physics of reloading real rockets.
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#5 - 2014-08-31 17:46:56 UTC
I agree completely with this change which has nothing to do with the fact that I live in a c5 wolf-rayet Big smile

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Bullet Therapist
FT Cold Corporation
#6 - 2014-08-31 17:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullet Therapist
In all honesty I wasn't a fan of changes to rapid light missile launchers when the changes were proposed but now I find myself using them quite often. I'd like to see a way to swap ammo before combat but I don't really think that it's necessary for keeping them balanced. They're already quite powerful, even on un-bonused hulls like the stabber.

Rapid heavy missile launchers on the other hand aren't really that great. They really don't do enough damage before the magazine runs out. Personally, I think heavy missiles are in need of a buff anyway, so I don't really think that the launchers themselves need to be fixed. I've used them a few times on this character and my PVP main, but between having to fit them to a battleship and the general crappiness of heavy missiles, I didn't have a great time.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-08-31 18:38:30 UTC
Blocked for annoying [Oceanus] in topics.

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#8 - 2014-08-31 18:47:24 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Rapid heavy missile launchers on the other hand aren't really that great. They really don't do enough damage before the magazine runs out. Personally, I think heavy missiles are in need of a buff anyway, so I don't really think that the launchers themselves need to be fixed. I've used them a few times on this character and my PVP main, but between having to fit them to a battleship and the general crappiness of heavy missiles, I didn't have a great time.

They aren't. When you factor in reload times, an Orthrus with heavy missile launchers puts out almost as much DPS (with the same damage application) as a Barghest that utilizes rapid heavy missile launchers.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#9 - 2014-09-01 00:06:38 UTC
DPS including reload on the launchers is already nearly the same as the old RLML was. 90% I believe, and the old RLML was OP.
So no way are you going to get a drop to 20 seconds of the reload timer.

Though yes, be nice to address the ammo swap without reload.
And be nice to address the general suck of HM's.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2014-09-01 00:43:20 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
DPS including reload on the launchers is already nearly the same as the old RLML was. 90% I believe, and the old RLML was OP.
So no way are you going to get a drop to 20 seconds of the reload timer.

Though yes, be nice to address the ammo swap without reload.
And be nice to address the general suck of HM's.


Nevyn, that wasn't what he asked...

But while we are at it, maybe we could increase the current clip size of the rapid launchers by 3,2 fold that would be cool

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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#11 - 2014-09-01 04:27:59 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
DPS including reload on the launchers is already nearly the same as the old RLML was. 90% I believe, and the old RLML was OP.
So no way are you going to get a drop to 20 seconds of the reload timer.

Though yes, be nice to address the ammo swap without reload.
And be nice to address the general suck of HM's.


I think based on my research in the original threadnaught that if CCP want to remain down this particular road of how rlml and rhml are utilised then at least an increase in ammo count per load could be made. 25 for rlml and 30 for rhml. And that's just for starters obviously a much more comprehensive evaluation of heavy missiles still needs to occur.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#12 - 2014-09-01 12:04:38 UTC
Rapids are powerful, the long realod timer is justified.

Now you can haggle over 5 seconds, but cutting it in half will just be balanced by rducing the rate of fire ... every change has consequences. Be careful what you ask for.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#13 - 2014-09-01 13:18:43 UTC
I personally petition for more front loading and longer reloads but it's an idea that gets no traction here despite it being a good balancing factor against blobs of rlml users.
Jaysen Larrisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-09-01 14:47:06 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
DPS including reload on the launchers is already nearly the same as the old RLML was. 90% I believe, and the old RLML was OP.
So no way are you going to get a drop to 20 seconds of the reload timer.

Though yes, be nice to address the ammo swap without reload.
And be nice to address the general suck of HM's.


I think based on my research in the original threadnaught that if CCP want to remain down this particular road of how rlml and rhml are utilised then at least an increase in ammo count per load could be made. 25 for rlml and 30 for rhml. And that's just for starters obviously a much more comprehensive evaluation of heavy missiles still needs to occur.



I've just started getting into LRML use and I like the concept quite a bit. From a practical standpoint, you might be able to shave off 5 sec from the reload...still generally 3x the reload time of most other systems. I think Caleb is spot on though...increasing the smmo magazine is a pretty solid solution.

Strikes me that essentially the RMLs would naturally have a larger ammo capacity since they are a lighter grade weapon system mounted on a larger ship with more magazine space. I agree that about 30 more missiles per magazine would help quite a bit...particularly when fighting multiple opponents (i.e. Frig gangs).

Additionally, you're spot on about HMs as well. They just don't feel like they are in a solid spot right now.

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Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-09-18 12:44:41 UTC
For reference, here is one of the last responses I have seen on the topic:

Quote:
Second, I've been working on the ammo swapping issue and will not be able to get in a change for 1.1. Solutions for this have been messy and we aren't satisfied enough with any of them to try and make them fit in this release. As we iterate after 1.1 I want to solve this issue one way or another.

Last, I'm doing some investigation for getting some kind of reload timer work going. Can't say if and when this would happen but it would have enormous value so I'm looking into it.

To understand how long it's been since this was brought up, this was from the Rubicon launch in November 2013, and this was discussed 2 months after the initial launch - despite hundreds of pages of feedback.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-09-18 12:58:44 UTC
At the rate that CCP is nerfing missiles I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the reload time on RLM.

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Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#17 - 2014-09-18 13:23:20 UTC
Reading form time which has past and the mechanicns working, most is fine and does not need changing. I think most complaienrs have gotten used to the rapid mechnic. It has it's place and it works.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#18 - 2014-09-18 15:08:57 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
At the rate that CCP is nerfing missiles I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the reload time on RLM.

LMLs just took a 6% rate of fire hit...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#19 - 2014-09-18 15:33:15 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
At the rate that CCP is nerfing missiles I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the reload time on RLM.

LMLs just took a 6% rate of fire hit...


Sad

Arthur, I know you mean well but I believe that we need to do something more drastic to get 'heard'.

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Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#20 - 2014-09-18 15:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
RLML is a powerfull weapon against frig size, if you increase the amount of ammo or decrease the reload time, ships like Cerb/caracal/orthrus are going to be OP, it's already hard to keep tackled ships or to engage with frigs when a RLML boat lands on the grid but it would be impossible with a UP.

moreover, this would increase to much their real dps (dps + reload time).

edit : i could have said the same about RHLM and cruisers.
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