Wormholes

Here is my take on things.

Before Hyperion was introduced, wh dwellers lived in their own bubble. It was safe (eyes on exits/wh collapsing) and profitable (anoms, PI and tech3 production) and when they wanted to PVP they would look for those unlucky ones who risked farming without their eyes on exits. It was a stale, boring and predictable place.

Now, these wh dwellers are not safe anymore and therefore can't profit as much as they did before. All the philosophical, hypothetical and theoretical BS that tries to legitimize all the tears in this thread is just that...BS. It came down to carebears not being able to profit anymore. Period. Some people say that they can't farm safely due to randoms in their hole (or scared to, due to 16 exits) and at the same time people say that wh dwellers are leaving wh (which supposedly means less pvp activity). These two things contradict each other. Less people in wormholes = safer to "farm" it. Or vice versa (if considering the former statement) which means "**** YEAH! MORE PVP IN INTERESTING ENVIRONMENT!".

There are ways that a person or even a small corp can still live in a wormhole relatively safe. Ready to get your head exploded? Merge your corp with an established wormhole alliance or if you are alone, join a corp that is in an established wormhole alliance!! Easy. Problem solved. I know, I know, you are not that smart to figure this out on your own. But that is why i am here! To teach you people how to survive in the harsh places which are known as wormholes.

TLDR;
I think this came down to CCP getting rid of all the carebears in WH space and that is Awesome! WH is a pvp zone, with blobs (albeit frigate-sized), and all the rest of the **** tactic package. True wh dwellers will find a way and man up. People who complain will leave for high sec because that is where the isk is (and they care for isk more than anything in EVE hence they complain here).
The whole incursion vs wormhole debate just proves it.

Goodbye carebears! До свидания! Auf Wiedersehen! وداعا! Au revoir!

You won't be missed.

<3 CCP.

You/your corp/your alliance can't protect itself?
Most wormholers carebear (I said Most, not all). That is the reason they are in a wormhole. Mostly to carebear.
Things changed now and they begin to complain by comparing isk ratios.

As I mentioned, there are ways out there. If you don't want to consider them, maybe wormhole life is not for you anymore.


The question "we spent all the isk on pvp ships, now we have none, how do we pvp?"
Fit an indy with lasers. There you go. You can pvp now.

On a serious note, you have to understand that you won't be alone in that aspect. Everyone will be running out of isk which means lower end pvp ships.

This effort will increase pvp in the short term but empty the space more long term. If that is the goal, it will exceed expectations.

Less hole crashing = less pvp

Less people living in wh= less pvp


The systems are less safe and I'm not against that but the connecting worm holes to such an extent vs. what was in place seems like overkill without the end goal in mind.

The small changes, baby steps was the rule that should have been applied. I like a few of the features in the change. C4's are messed up. And when C4's and C2's intermingle off all the static connections it's a mess for everyone. I don't even see your pvp fleets you talk about. The sad fact is I keep running into some of the same corps far to often.

WH space was one of those places where if you wanted to keep to yourself you could do it better there vs. anyplace else.

I'm willing to bet money that less people live in wh after these changes. C4's are screwed up now. The population in these worm holes will drop significantly.

What about

Less hole crashing = less pvp
Less people living in wh = less pvp
Less pvp = more carebears from K-space/even fleets of them with POS setups etc.
More carebears = more pvp

In all honesty, I think it will balance out.

Less pvp = more carebears from K-space/even fleets of them with POS setups etc.
More carebears = more pvp
More pvp = less carebears because they've run out of ISK because no sites spawn = *crickets chirping*

Dusettes required

Noxisia Arkana sums it up well.

You guys need to stop with all the whinney entitlement threads allready, you have to realise that WH space is a pale face of its former self, the glory days of mad T3 brawls all the time are over, the majority of groups sum you up when seeing a scout of yours in their chain and roll away 90% of the time.

I get that the changes CCP have made are not the changes we have suggested in years of threads but it is about time CCP spent some dev time on WH space and try and fix the pussy lives you have all started to live in WH's. Do i wish they consulted more with us before? Sure but they are the game developers and we aren't, you are all lucky they discuss this stuff with us as much as they do really.

Fob me off as a troll all you will but i can pretty much call out almost every large group out bar only a couple that has rolled away hostile chains when their numbers were not perfect or they had some other pussy excuse lined up. They either rolled away or did douchey bullshit to avoid the fight anyway.

TBH the only people i feel sorry for this are the people that lived in C2 space before these changes. These people lived here for the ISk and PVP usually and they already risked more then the C4 sooks that come out of the woodwork to cry over these changes, and now they seem to have far too many holes to roll away when needed due to the majority of new C4 statics being C2's.

The only change i would make to hyperion is make the new frig Wh's only available WH>LS or WH>null, i think WH>WH frig holes are beyond stupid and defeat their intended goals of facilitating groups to roam.

I get where ur coming from dude, the mass/distance change was put in to make it harder for groups to roll away from you. The problem is if they really don't want to fight, they will just POS up and log. You cannot force people to PvP, not even CCP can force PvP. At least with the old mechanics, if there wasn't going to be a fight, rolling away could be handled in minutes and everyone could get back to whatever it was they wanted to do. With the mass/distance changes, its the same outcome, barring stupidity I guess. Its just a lot worse for w-space to have groups POS spinning and logging out rather than simply rolling the hole.

If you want more groups to take fights at a numbers disadvantage, the only way you'll see it happen more is if it gets easier to replace losses and there are mechanics in place to help level the playing field. Hyperion arguably nerfed both for those trying to fund their PvP by running wormhole sites.

I'll take that as a "you're probably right".