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Has EVE's overall player base IQ gone down?

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Prince Kobol
#41 - 2014-08-30 11:55:37 UTC
I think what we are finding is a new class of gamer who wants instant gratification because they are so used to getting it.

Many games that are being released now across all platforms bear more resemblance to the arcade games of the 80's and early 90's.

We have a generation of players who have been brought up on games on facebook and mobile platforms.

Games with the complexity of Eve are a very rare breed these days.





Solecist Project
#42 - 2014-08-30 11:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Prince Kobol wrote:
I think what we are finding is a new class of gamer who wants instant gratification because they are so used to getting it.
Many games that are being released now across all platforms bear more resemblance to the arcade games of the 80's and early 90's.
We have a generation of players who have been brought up on games on facebook and mobile platforms.
Games with the complexity of Eve are a very rare breed these days.
You do not sound like you played any games from back then.

These games were everything else than "instant gratification".


These games were HARD TO BEAT and achievements actually involved SKILL!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Prince Kobol
#43 - 2014-08-30 12:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Solecist Project wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
I think what we are finding is a new class of gamer who wants instant gratification because they are so used to getting it.
Many games that are being released now across all platforms bear more resemblance to the arcade games of the 80's and early 90's.
We have a generation of players who have been brought up on games on facebook and mobile platforms.
Games with the complexity of Eve are a very rare breed these days.
You do not sound like you played any games from back then.

These games were everything else than "instant gratification".

These games were HARD TO BEAT and achievements actually involved SKILL!


Instant gratification does not mean easy. It means that within seconds you are in thick of the action and in a very short amount of time you can see progression.

I lived in arcades as a boy and my 2 favourite games were Jackal and New Zealand Story, both very difficult games but both gave instant gratification.

Arcade games by there very nature needed to provide Instant gratification to keep the person coming back (pumping those coins in) for more but also needed a scaling of difficulty and skill to master in order to give the player a sense of achievement.

There was nothing like having a group of people surrounding you in a arcade watching you achieve something very few could.

Look at the success of DOTA and LoL. These games are the same. They give instant gratification but require a level of skill to master. Same with 1st person shoot'em ups.
Solecist Project
#44 - 2014-08-30 12:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Prince Kobol wrote:
...

You don't understand the concept of instant gratification.
Instant gratification is about *rewards* and not about *challenges*.

That's why it is called "gratification".
That's why Zynga games generally can be categorised as "instant gratification" games.

grind levelup grind grind levelup grind grind grind levelup grind grind grind grind levelup
"I AM SOOO GOOD!"



Arcade games were made hard on purpose.
The "drug" was the desire to keep playing *TO* actually beat them.
"I WILL FINISH THIS! I KNOW I CAN BEAT THIS!"


The mindset of players back then was a completely different one.

Please inform yourself properly, because you are way off.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#45 - 2014-08-30 12:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
One can say that the modern gaming industry is not about providing challenges,
but about providing rewards.

NeuroScience gave the entertainment industry better and better ways
of finding out how to make people hooked ... and how to turn off deeper
thought so they keep being hooked ... and the best way to do this is to reach out for lower instincts.

Gratification.


They are giving people a fake sense of self worth. That's why there are extremely hostile "carebears",
because they have a fake sense of self worth. They do not engage in player vs. player combat
and are extremely mad when it's forced onto them, because it's the reality that shows them
that they are losers who can not actually win challenges.


Or, in other words ...

If I keep telling you that you are great at chess and let you win all the time ...
... even when you are a really ****** player without any actual skills ...
... someone who does not let you win will make you suffer from loss of self worth ...
... which leads to reactions you can read up on the forums.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#46 - 2014-08-30 12:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Miko Jin
Solecist Project wrote:
One can say that the modern gaming industry is not about providing challenges,
but about providing rewards.

NeuroScience gave the entertainment industry better and better ways
of finding out how to make people hooked ... and how to turn off deeper
thought so they keep being hooked ... and the best way to do this is to reach out for lower instincts.

Gratification.


They are giving people a fake sense of self worth. That's why there are extremely hostile "carebears",
because they have a fake sense of self worth. They do not engage in player vs. player combat
and are extremely mad when it's forced onto them, because it's the reality that shows them
that they are losers who can not actually win challenges.


Or, in other words ...

If I keep telling you that you are great at chess and let you win all the time ...
... even when you are a really ****** player without any actual skills ...
... someone who does not let you win will make you suffer from loss of self worth ...
... which leads to reactions you can read up on the forums.


Google is a wonderful thing but copy and paste does not make you intelligent.
I shall just say this, A pseudointellectual will be condescending and make you feel stupid for either not knowing what they know or believing what they say to be true. Now that is true of you!
Your Avatar still looks Anemic by the way.
Slick Entry
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-08-30 12:47:31 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
You don't understand the concept of instant gratification.
Instant gratification is about *rewards* and not about *challenges*.

That's why it is called "gratification".
That's why Zynga games generally can be categorised as "instant gratification" games.

grind levelup grind grind levelup grind grind grind levelup grind grind grind grind levelup
"I AM SOOO GOOD!"



Arcade games were made hard on purpose.
The "drug" was the desire to keep playing *TO* actually beat them.
"I WILL FINISH THIS! I KNOW I CAN BEAT THIS!"


The mindset of players back then was a completely different one.

Please inform yourself properly, because you are way off.


Progression is a reward in itself. Progression is gratifying. Fast progression even more so, especially when the game is hard.
Solecist Project
#48 - 2014-08-30 12:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Miko Jin wrote:
Google is a wonderful thing but copy and paste does not make you intelligent.
I shall just say this, A pseudointellectual will be condescending and make you feel stupid for either not knowing what they know or believing what they say to be true. Now that is true of you!


You can not accept when someone knows more than you
and grasps reality better than you.

You keep trying to get a reaction from me that
makes you feel better about yourself.

Everyone is free to go through the posting history of the person I quoted.

You even posted in the thread about Sibyyl,
even after I noted that I will report your posts and that the thread is about Sibyyl alone.

She is thankfull that I keep an eye on that thread ...
... as she is thankfull for the thread itself ...
... which is a gift to her for everything she has done for me.


You keep trying to make this about me ...
... ignoring that you are simply constantly trying to make it about yourself.


You are unable to deal with me ...
... because I crush your fake sense of superiority.

Instead, you keep projecting your fake sense of superiority onto me.


I will simply hide your posts now.


Have a nice day/weekend.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#49 - 2014-08-30 12:52:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Miko Jin
Solecist Project wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:
Google is a wonderful thing but copy and paste does not make you intelligent.
I shall just say this, A pseudointellectual will be condescending and make you feel stupid for either not knowing what they know or believing what they say to be true. Now that is true of you!


You can not accept when someone knows more than you
and grasps reality better than you.

You keep trying to get a reaction from me that
makes you feel better about yourself.

Everyone is free to go through the posting history of the person I quoted.

You even posted in the thread about Sibyyl,
even after I noted that I will report your posts and that the thread is about Sibyyl alone.

She is thankfull that I keep an eye on that thread ...
... as she is thankfull for the thread itself ...
... which is a gift to her for everything she has done for me.


You keep trying to make this about me ...
... ignoring that you are simply constantly trying to make it about yourself.
Truth is when called to question psuedo intellectuals run away or blank out the truth that they really have ideals that are not their own and they are not able to see the full picture or the whole truth.


You are unable to deal with me ...
... because I crush your fake sense of superiority.

Instead, you keep projecting your fake sense of superiority onto me.


I will simply hide your posts now.


Have a nice day/weekend.

When confronted Pseudo Intelectualls run away or hide as can be seen above . Except usually their ideals are not their own and they are not able to see the full picture or the whole truth. I could go further by adding that These often involve a superficial understanding of a subject and condescension to the audience, as well as possible self-delusion.
A picture seems to be forming from the previous posts.
Solecist Project
#50 - 2014-08-30 12:52:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Slick Entry wrote:
Progression is a reward in itself. Progression is gratifying. Fast progression even more so, especially when the game is hard.
I agree partly.

Progression is a reward in itself.

grind levelup grind grind levelup grind grind grind levelup


Fast progression though does not come from challenge,
because challenge hinders fast progression.

The harder the challenge becomes, the harder it becomes to reach gratification.



To make this more clear:


Old games, compared to new games, simply kept getting harder and harder,
up to the point where they are pretty much unable to beat ... (Space Invaders, for example)

... while Zynga-style games do not actually get more challenging ...
... but instead simply increase the intervals between each gratification.

grind levelup grind grind levelup grind grind grind levelup grind grind grind grind levelup

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Celise Katelo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2014-08-30 12:55:50 UTC
I don't get why so many humans choose the path of IQ over that of something else to define another person. Also as a general rule when it comes to leadership the correlation of IQ matched with social behaviour can have some amazing effects when you combine the two. Also if someone will listen to commands.

A lesser Man's / Lady's IQ doesn't mean that they make the game worse for others, it can improve, even enhance game play.
But how can someone with a lesser IQ actually make a game more challenging. Well this is partly because higher IQ humans will tend to take a Leadership role. If you combine Leadership & peoples strengths in set roles then even the most stupid person on the planet can be the most valuable asset.

Valuable asset ...This list is about combat over anything else, but the following can also be used for most content in the game.

  • Will listen to commands without failure
  • Reaction time / able to complete the task at hand
  • Can sometimes think outside of the box
  • Trusting
  • Reliability / punctuality / timekeeping
  • Willing to learn


With the following skill sets i have mentioned you don't need a high IQ for everyone if you combine them with Leadership, since people can have one or more of the following skills and can truly out-shine someone's IQ.P

EVEBoard ...Just over 60million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"
Luukje
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#52 - 2014-08-30 12:57:50 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
One can say that the modern gaming industry is not about providing challenges,
but about providing rewards.

NeuroScience gave the entertainment industry better and better ways
of finding out how to make people hooked ... and how to turn off deeper
thought so they keep being hooked ... and the best way to do this is to reach out for lower instincts.

Gratification.


They are giving people a fake sense of self worth. That's why there are extremely hostile "carebears",
because they have a fake sense of self worth. They do not engage in player vs. player combat
and are extremely mad when it's forced onto them, because it's the reality that shows them
that they are losers who can not actually win challenges.


Or, in other words ...

If I keep telling you that you are great at chess and let you win all the time ...
... even when you are a really ****** player without any actual skills ...
... someone who does not let you win will make you suffer from loss of self worth ...
... which leads to reactions you can read up on the forums.


^ This.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#53 - 2014-08-30 12:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
sol,
you're arguing with npc's,
this has (arguably) about as much merit as arguing with your own alt.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#54 - 2014-08-30 13:08:49 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
sol,
you're arguing with npc's,
this has (arguably) about as much merit as arguing with your own alt.



Isn't that what is going on? Or the whole point of the argument?
Solecist Project
#55 - 2014-08-30 13:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Luukje wrote:
^ This.


Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
sol,
you're arguing with npc's,
this has (arguably) about as much merit as arguing with your own alt.


Thank you two for your support and display of education and understanding of reality.

Please note that I will keep my tone this way and not ever again let myself get
consumed by the contagious hate too many people in GD suffer from
and keep spreading onto others.

It even seems that Sibyyl herself has started to show signs of said infection.


Anyhow ... please note that I am trying to educate.

I see mistakes or misunderstandings and provide information for the reader
to improve their knowledge or understanding of things.


The fact that many people can not deal with "being educated" ...
... because of their fake self worth and false belief of "knowing it anyway" ...
... is a sad fact, but has nothing to do with me.


Believe me when I tell you that it is only them who keep making it worse for themselves.

Like the one who even came to the yellow-thread.

A perfect example.

She will just keep going on and on and on ...
... unless this very line makes her stop ...
... just to make it seem like I am wrong anyway.


And ... see my post above about said person.



Thank you again for your support and understanding
and I hope you will have a nice day/weekend, just like I have.

In my cuddly, warm bed ... listening to the rain outside. (:

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Prince Kobol
#56 - 2014-08-30 13:17:54 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:


I can copy and paste random crap of the internet


Instant gratification comes in many forms.

LoL and Dota as well as many of the great arcade games of the 80's and early 90's provide this.

Something being incredibly easy and requiring no skills does not always provide Instant gratification.

One of the reason why Lol and Dota have become so fantastically popular is because they provide the person a sense of achievement in a very short amount of time yet skill requires an element of skill.

You can log onto LoL for the very first time and get a kill within minutes of playing, hence the instant gratification, yet to truly master a champion requires a level of skill, some require more skill then others, yet whilst you are mastering that champion you are still getting kills.

CoD, GTA, Quake, Unreal, Doom, Wolfenstein, Halo, Fay Cry etc are all instant gratification games. They all give the player what they want within minutes of playing.. kills, yet still require a level of skill to progress and more so to play against other players.

Look at the best selling games over the last few years, the vast majority of them give the player what they want within a few of playing and are designed at best to give enjoyment for a short span of time.

If a game gives a person enjoyment for a few months then its deemed to be a success.

Very few games have anywhere near the complexity of Eve.

Many new gamers have no idea that games with the complexity of Eve even exist and they are so used to be given what they want with minutes of playing and the concept that it can takes years to obtain a goal is so alien to them they come crying on the forums.
Solecist Project
#57 - 2014-08-30 13:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Prince Kobol wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:


I can copy and paste random crap of the internet
It is sad to see that you do not believe
that other people are able to make up their own thoughts about matters.

As you had to start the post with crap that indicates
that you felt attacked ... I will simply refuse to keep conversing with you.

Have a nice day/weekend. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#58 - 2014-08-30 13:51:01 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
CCP reduced the grind?

Instead of grinding rep for a variety of entities, you can now focus grind LP and ISK in quest hubs but you will grind the same amount. And what ever happened to EVE is hard, HTFU? EVE is m'eh, wait for primary?
I do grind the same amount actually, which is to say not at all, ever.

As regards EVE is hard, it's still intact more or less, EVE is grind is being abandoned though. Grindy != Hard.


Solecist Project wrote:
Irrelevant to the point and not comparable to the huge increase over the last ten years.
Quite right, my post was intended to be more facetious than it came across as.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2014-08-30 16:04:27 UTC
LazyDeer wrote:
I read the forums every now and then and all I see is so many players crying about game mechanics. Like ganking haulers and miners, scams in jita, Wardecs being a greifer tool, High sec not safe and more. Thing is, this has been going on all the time, and puzzles me how people can't learn from the past? So is EVE's overall IQ dropping?





Hey thanks for wandering in to congratulate yourself. It must be a real burden for you to be surrounded by folks of such low calibre and potential.


I am awestruck by your massive intellect and wisdom. I don't know.. maybe I'll go build a small shrine to you in my bedroom now.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-08-30 16:21:05 UTC
Miko Jin wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:



Ignorance is Strength.


Who said those so called famous words?
What you meant to put was "Ignorance is bliss"
And just so you know, It comes from Thomas Gray's poem, Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College (1742)


I would be spectacularly impressed, had I not learned of this thing yesterday where you can type anything you want and pull up facts from anywhere on the Internet in seconds.


Did you want to share more facts with us? Like who invented canned tuna, or the first woman to have cleared 5 feet on a trampoline jump? Maybe you should post everything you find on a Google search for us, so we can know how clever you are.


Awaiting with great anticipation..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.