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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Add signature radius to the overview
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Doomheim
#41 - 2015-01-22 21:47:11 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
This will also make it more obvious how many 'solo' PvPers are lying through their teeth and using boosting alts, which is a good thing.

The fact a stupid idea negates a broken system doesn't make it any less stupid. It just means off-grid links need to die.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#42 - 2015-01-22 22:05:46 UTC
Anhenka wrote:

You do realize that shield extender and shield rigs increase sig radius right?


And halos and skirmish boosts reduce signature radius. At which point you ask yourself, does he have skirmish boosts and halos along with being shield tanked? Or is he armor tanked?

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-01-22 22:29:28 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Quesa wrote:
My fear for this is that it would be an overburden on the servers because this is the type of thing that is not only affected by what the pilot does with his ship but what others do to it as well. So not only is this calculating the sig radius by the ship, active modules, fleet bonuses and pilot skill set but it would also have to consider hostile painters.

The type of information just requires too much overhead to be put on the overview with no foreseeable equal gain.

Things like traversal require few bits of information and are not modified by skills, bonuses, active modules an active EWAR each time it needs to update the overview.


The server already has the info since the sig size determine how long it takes to get a lock...


Yup, so the only increase in load would be to push the information the server already has, to the clients.

Pushing this would scale at O(n^2) though. I know plenty of things in eve do, but I'd rather see better server stability than additional (admittedly useful) information on the overview.

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Harry Saq
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2015-01-22 22:44:53 UTC
Sure why not add it....though my overview is already crowded to the point of silly anyway...but it is logical that I would be able to see/detect it...
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#45 - 2015-01-22 23:34:02 UTC
I always wanted this. However, there is one thing why it might be a bad idea: it gives away some very valuable information about ship fitting (i.e. shield vs armor tank), if someone is running an mwd at decreased speed in order to pose as an AB user etc.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#46 - 2015-01-23 03:22:17 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
I see absolutely no reason whatsoever you should have access to this information that would allow you to tell with ease which type of tanking ships that can use either type is using, or if shield only ships are using an active or passive tank.

I shouldn't be able to glance at my overview and go "Yup, look at that sig radius, it's definitely a shield gank thorax, not an armor heavy tackle"

You do realize that shield extender and shield rigs increase sig radius right?

-1


but i should be able to tell at a glance if you are mwd or ab fit? or if you are using oversize armor or prop mods?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mario Putzo
#47 - 2015-01-23 04:07:11 UTC
Hesitant to agree. Since Bombs don't work like traditional "explosive" projectiles (missiles) having this information available would simply give a huge advantage to bombers. However if CCP were to change bombs so speed and explosion velocity were calculated as well in a similar way as missiles (lowest value first), then I think this would be a good adjustment.

As it stands today all this does is paints a nice rosy picture for bombers as soon as they land on grid, and since shield ships will always have a higher sig than armor ships (assuming both run MWD or don't run MWD), this would effectively kill shield doctrines, which are already limping along, outside of fringe cases like the Ishtar (which is for reasons irrelevant to shields actually being good).

No +1 from me until CCP changes how bomb damage is calculated.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2015-01-23 06:59:24 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
I see absolutely no reason whatsoever you should have access to this information that would allow you to tell with ease which type of tanking ships that can use either type is using, or if shield only ships are using an active or passive tank.

I shouldn't be able to glance at my overview and go "Yup, look at that sig radius, it's definitely a shield gank thorax, not an armor heavy tackle"

You do realize that shield extender and shield rigs increase sig radius right?

-1


but i should be able to tell at a glance if you are mwd or ab fit? or if you are using oversize armor or prop mods?


I can get all that info by pressing 'look at'.....
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#49 - 2015-01-23 07:03:57 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
but i should be able to tell at a glance if you are mwd or ab fit?
The game shows you what they are using if you zoom in, I just checked with a duel prop. It'll also tell you if they are using active hardeners; which is to say, unless crazy mindgames are coming into play, there's a good shot you know at a glance.

The only thing you'd glean from this are drugs, implants, and boosters. And even then the barrier to exact numbers before was that math on the fly is hard in combat.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#50 - 2015-01-23 08:16:32 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
You're forgetting the increase in load on the pilot, reading this stuff on top of everything else they already have to read in the course of a fight, nevermind that between someone's ship type (frigate, battleship, cruiser, etc.) and velocity you should be able to reasonably approximate their sig radius.

Information overload is a thing, data takes time to read and process and there's not as much time as one would like except during TiDi.

What you're describing is a fault of the UI, not of the data wanting to be displayed in question. We already know how information on the overview is cumbersome and it is agreed that it should be changed in some way to be easier to track (listed stats on the target ship, maybe?), so the question isn't whether to implement a good idea or not, it's how to implement a good idea to a poorly designed UI.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#51 - 2015-01-23 08:37:12 UTC
Not to high-jack your day thread.
A few months back I asked CCP in the little things post to give us the absolute to have our watch list players and their HP in our overview as a column.
I believe CCP Kurkur (sorry for misspelling) stated it was a good idea but due to the current set up it would consume to much data.

The problem CCP isn't CPU it is data thrush holds that people have.

The overview should be the the place to get like 90% of are info. Even target hp, but it doesn't work that way.

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Aran Hotchkiss
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-01-23 10:01:40 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Not to high-jack your day thread.
A few months back I asked CCP in the little things post to give us the absolute to have our watch list players and their HP in our overview as a column.
I believe CCP Kurkur (sorry for misspelling) stated it was a good idea but due to the current set up it would consume to much data.

The problem CCP isn't CPU it is data thrush holds that people have.

The overview should be the the place to get like 90% of are info. Even target hp, but it doesn't work that way.



I'm having trouble figuring out if you're for or against this..... your first and third paragraphs seem to support it whilst your second is against it....


Personally I like this idea - and I feel it's worth mentioning I play on a single 13" monitor where everything is competing for space, including the overview, and sig radius is something I'd make a compromise to include on my overview

You should have enough control over your herd of cats to make them understand. If they constantly make misstakes, get better cats.
erittainvarma
Fistful of Finns
#53 - 2015-01-23 22:00:45 UTC
-1

It gives too much info out and you have no real control about it. With speed you can always play slower than you are, with sig you can't do anything.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#54 - 2015-02-28 03:45:45 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:

Yup, so the only increase in load would be to push the information the server already has, to the clients.

Pushing this would scale at O(n^2) though. I know plenty of things in eve do, but I'd rather see better server stability than additional (admittedly useful) information on the overview.[/quote]

Yes it would increase the server load, but by a minuscule amount because I would be surprised if CCP had it setup where it pushed the data out to the clients if the column wasn't active in your overview. And since the server already has the data on your sig radius, it would just have to do a check to see if you have it as an active column. If you do not have it, then the server would go back to what it normally would do, but if you had it checked then it would push the data to your client.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#55 - 2015-04-16 09:26:34 UTC
Still waiting for this vital information, that I should have by the time I'm done locking a thing, to be available somehow.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Ivarr Kerensky
Kerensky Tactical Group
#56 - 2015-04-16 09:41:05 UTC
Showing actual sig radius would give far too much information on fitting, links and whatnot. So no, it shouldn't be implemented.

Excellence is an attitude.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#57 - 2015-04-16 09:50:32 UTC
Ivarr Kerensky wrote:
Showing actual sig radius would give far too much information on fitting, links and whatnot. So no, it shouldn't be implemented.


Why does it give away too much information, and why should giving away intel from being on grid with a thing be an issue, if that intel is how big it is to your sensors?

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Ivarr Kerensky
Kerensky Tactical Group
#58 - 2015-04-16 11:35:36 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Ivarr Kerensky wrote:
Showing actual sig radius would give far too much information on fitting, links and whatnot. So no, it shouldn't be implemented.


Why does it give away too much information, and why should giving away intel from being on grid with a thing be an issue, if that intel is how big it is to your sensors?


Your obviously biased question is then answered by yourself. It's giving away too much intel and creates yet another hilarious non-effort clown fleet "sort by sig" option. No thanks.

Excellence is an attitude.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#59 - 2015-04-16 12:52:44 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
FT Diomedes wrote:
I think it could also be nice to see what friendly effects are being applied to your locked targets. For example, if I lock six targets, it might be nice to see which one of them my fleet members already have target painted or disrupted.

This would be very useful for keeping things tackled. The trick we use right now is "tackle a player who's name starts with the same letter as yours". A bit silly.

There are all our dominion

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Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#60 - 2015-04-16 15:09:14 UTC
Ivarr Kerensky wrote:

Your obviously biased question is then answered by yourself. It's giving away too much intel and creates yet another hilarious non-effort clown fleet "sort by sig" option. No thanks.


And yet there are counters to this.

-Setup a few brick tanked ships with slightly more sig then the rest of your fleet (Sub option would be to target paint your own brick tanked fleet members).
-Have the logis prelock the largest sigs.
-Have your fleet pulse MWDs randomly to change who has the largest sig to split the incoming DPS

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.