Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Dargan, it happens so often that devs wanted to somehow reduce the ways decs could be avoided.

again, all in the dev blogs.

Unfortunately, there are downsides to being in a player corporation, wardecs being one of them.
Why should a "group of friends that want the benefit of a POS" be considered special snowflakes and exempted from the rules that the rest of us have to follow?

Perhaps it is you/them who is looking at EVE in the wrong light, and expecting it to be something that it is not?




You'd be surprised at the depth and breadth of understanding that you'll get from other EVE players on things. We all started out as the same little fish in the big pond ...




I bet you hated [subject] in school -- but you still couldn't not go ... else you'd fail the class.

Kinda the same thing here.




"PvP" means "Player vs. Player", and is not solely limited to shooting each other.

The problem isn't so much that the "PvP players" don't find your chosen path to be interesting, but rather that the other side typically won't even stop to think that maybe the "PvP players" are right when they keep telling them that there are few (if any) activities in New Eden where you're not engaging in PvP (or, at the very least, exempt from it).


For example:

- Mining -> all those rocks you mine before me, I cannot mine.
- Markets -> all those orders you undercut are other players
- Missions -> You can steal a completion trigger, or just kill the "boss" rat so you get the trigger in a white can
- Exploration -> you can wait for the other player to unlock something ... and then steal the best loot.

Now, at least on the mining one ... you're probably going to argue something about it being PvE and not impacting other player for reasons. So, let's set our scene, and see where that takes us.

System A -> 5 belts, station.
System B -> 2 belts, no station, long warps to the belts from gates.
You & Me --> "solo", or at least no corp help/haulers tonight. You're the better miner by skills.

We both play in roughly the same primetime, but with a couple hours offset (e.g. you're East Europe and I'm UK, or you're US East Coast, and I'm US Mountain ... or other 1-3 hour offset).

Today, the belts have been scoured as normal ... and you log in, clean up all the dense veld and other 10% ores you can get your hands on.

An hour later, I log in, and there are no more "highend" ores in the belts. I planned on a quick hour or two to relax, and finish off the mins for a BS or something that I'm building for myself. Trouble is, now that you've mined out all the good stuff, I can't do that. So, you've negatively impacted my gameplay for tonight ... and there's nothing I can really do about it, since the extra time I'd need in order to go next door and get into a belt would make it take longer than the amount of free time I have tonight.

So, now I can't :

1. Relax in a belt for an hour or two, while getting the last of the mins I needed
2. Install that job for whatever new toy I wanted
3. get that new toy for this weekend.

Thanks a lot, jerk .

Now, let's say that instead of you mining out all the "good stuff" ... you waited for me to get complacent in a belt, and then nuked my barge.

Outcome is exactly the same as above, with the added annoyance of "now I have to buy a new retriever".

Oh, and just in case you want to start shouting that I'm just another ebil PvP player - My Certificates

I really think six hundred active wars at the same time is beyond absurd, even for EVE.

I won't say "hard limit" but I do think it would be worthwhile to have wardec fees increasing with your number of open wars a little more quickly than they currently do. Anything past 100 open wars should really give all but the very wealthiest a moment of pause where they stop and consider if they really want to pay for that 101st wardec.

Allow two Capsuleer-run entities (corporations or alliances) to settle their dispute with gunboats.

Note that this may involve one of the parties in the dispute to hire a third party to settle it on their behalf. In addition, some capsuleer-run entities task themselves with ensuring that other entities are strong enough to survive in New Eden (i.e. "wardec without previous provocation").


No. Read above.


No. It can be used to do this ... but that is more because many entities in New Eden wrongly feel that they do not need to concern themselves with training the basic piloting skills required to not die stupidly -- AFK mining in a belt in the middle of a wardec, for example.



Nope, the wardec system needs some polish maybe... but it's hardly "at the end of its useful life".

Best way to protect the new players is to be better at keeping them out of the useless corps that are nothing more than cannon fodder. Most of these corps are generally spread out across the entirety of New Eden, and yet the leadership is more concerned with numbers (hey, we have 75 people!!!) than having them organized -- which means that the second a spanner is thrown in the works (i.e. "wardec" or "gank-fleet"), the entire corporation goes to hell, and people are dying left and right.

It's stuff like this that's caused the majority of corps to have stupid rules like "don't ever undock" or "don't play eve" during a wardec.



1. Nope
2. Nope
3. Nope

4. Not lying to myself about the nature of EVE, and thus do what I can to mitigate the "danger" of wardecs (i.e. "flying smart", "trained basic combat skills", "htfu", "have fun, even with the people wanting to kill me").

^^

This we agree on. But only the defender needs an objective. The attacker has his reasons for deccing and has whatever objective they want, max damage, intimidation, area denial, whatever.

My alt has been decced for a month now by various corps. And we are the kinda outfit that dont mind forming up and going on a roam for war targets. Its just massively taxing to seek out targets that log on and off separate to us, play it extremely safe, never engage off station. So taxing that morale is affected.

Now if we had something to do as defenders. Timers to grind, a structure to bash. I guarantee we'd have been working on that from day one!

That is kind of a cool idea. Making war mechanics so that you had missions to do or some sort of objective to pursue. It would be nice if they had stuff that even newer players without a good setup could help with so that everyone could do something to help the war effort rather than just hide in station for a week.

I agree. I laugh off war dec's. It was devastating when I was a noob..now I don't care. Let them waste their money. Its been 4 years since I had a loss to a war dec.. (obviously I am an alt..i mean my main). and we get war dec'd every couple months.

Here is my idea though: please share constructive feedback



Corporate skill: Wartime Logistics
--Corporation may conduct war in accordance with CONCORD guidelines for all systems with in 5 jumps of their Corp HQ office.
each skill increase the logistical range of war operations by 5 jumps. (25 jumps at V)

Could adjust this by giving all corps 5 or 10 jumps with no skill, and CEO trains skill for 4 jumps a level or 3 jumps a level to still end up with 25 jumps.


Then charge a Corp x amount of ISK based on number of members when relocating their the Corp HQ Office. (Makes a nice adjustable ISK sink for CCP)



The idea is to get neighbors to fight neighbors, kind of have more (or) less dangerous areas of HS (based on number of HS PvP/WD corps in that region). This would to some degree throttle a small population of WD Corps that run 10-15 or more WDs at same time by just WDing everything on the forums and camping a bottleneck system. However these corps could just move their Corp HQ to said system and still do the same thing. This might also actually make Corps care about their Corp HQs (which I don't think anyone does atm).

Right now, wardec mechanics are in a fairly good place. I find it a little bit hard to credit that any corp is actually maintaining 600 active wardecs at this stage of the game, but in the case that I am wrong, that corp must be spending a phenomenal amount of isk by anyone's standards in order to do so. A single wardec costs anywhere between 50 and 500 mil per week, after all, and it isn't easy to recover that expense from every corp you wardec. Some wars result in no kills, no ransoms, and a net loss.

So you see, the current price scheme already limits the number of wars an aggressor can afford. Larger, more wealthy aggressors can afford to declare more wars, and impoverished pilots like me who only eat what they kill can only afford a few. This sort of order makes some sense, although personally I think we ought to go to a flat 10 mil isk per week fee, in order to encourage more wars and to allow more new players to get into the wardec game as aggressors.

The "objectives" idea gets tossed around a lot, but it is wrong because wars already have player-generated objectives. Introducing CCP-generated objectives would turn them into a capture-the-flag mini game, which would be contrary to the spirit of the sandbox.

Really, the only thing CCP can do to improve wardecs at this point, aside from reducing the fees, would be to fix NPC corps. The consequences for hiding in NPC corps should be more significant. My suggestion has always been that the default NPC corp for players should always be the faction militia, and that there should be a limit on the time that one can spend in the starter corp before "graduating".