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[CSM] December Summit - Future highlevel discussion - Fixing broken systems

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Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#21 - 2011-11-25 17:53:03 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
The wardec system needs a revamp.

It needs to be simplified. A flat fee cost for wardeccing. There should be no need for decshields. There should be no accommodation for avoiding decs by jumping a corp to another alliance. A corp jumps to another alliance, the wardec follows it (and pulls in its new alliance free-of-charge.) (Players are still free to leave corp.)

Wardeccing alliances cannot have other corps enter their alliance for the duration of their wardec.

Accommodation for ISK warfare. If a corp can pay to start a war, the opposing corp should be able to pay to avoid the war, but that cost should be expensive. It should be expensive to avoid shoot-em ups (since this is primarily a shoot-em-up game). If it costs X amount to start a war, it should cost triple the amount to end it. Once bribed, the corp cannot be wardecced again by the same corp for two (or more) days.

Just a simple set of rules are all that are required. Simple rules are harder to game and exploit.


This

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#22 - 2011-11-25 17:55:34 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Nullsec industry. Namely the fact that mining and building stuff localy is orders of magnitude slower, more expensive, time-consuming and less efficient than simply importing everything from Jita. The efficienty, speed, and scaleability of 0.0 industry needs to be multiplied many times to be able to compete with the thousands of industrialists in highsec. Until that happens, there will be very little reasons to do any industry at all in 0.0, other than "because I like it".

(Disclaimer: I live in Pure Blind. If the situation is different on the furthest edges of the universe, then I don't know much about it.)

In my opinion this is right now amongst the biggest gaping chest wounds of EVE.

Null is not safe as High-sec and the consequence is not being able to produce as much as hi-sec.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Voddick
AFK
#23 - 2011-11-26 00:31:16 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
Incursions at the moment destabilize the economy.

Quick Point: Incursion LP store is a sink, not faucet.

The High Sec isk payout should be nerfed, especially Vanguards Shocked *GASP*! But seriously, making billions is easy and safe isk in highsec. I’ve made a liquid bil in a day before and I’ve only been at risk three times--2 disconnected logi, and 1 fail FC.

Second, mining is broken…especially ice mining.
Please see this post as a conversation starter:
http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=26871
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-11-26 08:31:17 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Nullsec industry. Namely the fact that mining and building stuff localy is orders of magnitude slower, more expensive, time-consuming and less efficient than simply importing everything from Jita. The efficienty, speed, and scaleability of 0.0 industry needs to be multiplied many times to be able to compete with the thousands of industrialists in highsec. Until that happens, there will be very little reasons to do any industry at all in 0.0, other than "because I like it".

(Disclaimer: I live in Pure Blind. If the situation is different on the furthest edges of the universe, then I don't know much about it.)

In my opinion this is right now amongst the biggest gaping chest wounds of EVE.

Null is not safe as High-sec and the consequence is not being able to produce as much as hi-sec.


And the consequence of that is that people who only want to do mining or industry and not get involved in combat (whatever their reasons are) do not have a place in 0.0. An entire area of the game is obsoleted because even a corporation of industrialists can't utilize the resources well enough to compete with one person with a (jump) freighter. This is bad design. Contrary to popular belief, 0.0 should not just be a supercap PvP arena. Nullsec should be a place to build empires.
Jax Slizard
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-11-27 18:07:25 UTC
I believe that Malcanis had a really elegant bounty system fix, if you can find it. It was well thought out.

I believe that the Mac build though Cider is a broken system a lot of the time. I feel like saying 'fix it or don't offer it' is a really stupid attitude, but at some point if you could actually fix it (stopping the crash-to-desktop for no repeatable reason) that would be great, and if you can't fix it, its probable that the money spent on Transgaming could probably be better spend on something real.

The isk/mineral source/sink problem is borked, (mostly by botting, also by bounties.) (The WH system is better....(as in items instead of ISK))

Caps and supercaps should be much more mineral-intensive. They are not supposed to be used how they are used right now (although we'll just have to see how hard the nerf-hammer comes down.)

There is much angst about station games. (Undocks, docking radius etc.)

On that note, aggression mechanics could be....better. (like RR.)
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-11-28 11:50:40 UTC
I would like the statement of "Broken and Fix" fixed.

It is a term that is just too broad and vague, especially when I read and I see people describe a feature as broken but they are talking about 2 different things.

I would love to see a Procedure format or something the describes a problem, sets some assumption or standards and gives solutions. Other wise fix hibred by making it the same as Projectiles will be the common theme.
I would like to see a Broken and Fix Form like they do for Bug reports



On another note.

I personally would love to see, or have the CSM see the unfinished road map of features that were planned but never finish, Ask which one are easy or difficult to expand on and make some recommendations of what to add onto or request/suggest a slight detour the directions of some projects.

Keeping in mind that CCP not only has to keep players but also have to attract new ones.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Juwi Kotch
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-11-28 14:36:51 UTC
My top priority subject atm is the bounty system. Make it work and introduce a whole new profession en passant. There is a proposal how to do that with limited effort and investment discussed at this board right now.

"Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future." Sonmi-451
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#28 - 2011-11-28 23:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
My oft-repeated wish list:

- Netural logistics need to be prevented from docking if they rep someone who is actively engaged in hostilities.
- War decs should not transfer, but "stick" to their target and be extended to allies. This means a wardec against a corp STAYS on that corp even if they join and then leave an alliance. It would also allow wardeccing a corp inside an alliance, encouraging the alliance to remove that corp if that is part of the objective. This solves dec scraping and makes it possible to choose specific objectives.
- Make the initial wardec more expensive, but keep the weekly upkeep the same.

edit: I too would love to see the bounty system overhauled.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#29 - 2011-11-29 05:12:17 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Nullsec industry. Namely the fact that mining and building stuff localy is orders of magnitude slower, more expensive, time-consuming and less efficient than simply importing everything from Jita. The efficienty, speed, and scaleability of 0.0 industry needs to be multiplied many times to be able to compete with the thousands of industrialists in highsec. Until that happens, there will be very little reasons to do any industry at all in 0.0, other than "because I like it".

(Disclaimer: I live in Pure Blind. If the situation is different on the furthest edges of the universe, then I don't know much about it.)

In my opinion this is right now amongst the biggest gaping chest wounds of EVE.

Null is not safe as High-sec and the consequence is not being able to produce as much as hi-sec.


And the consequence of that is that people who only want to do mining or industry and not get involved in combat (whatever their reasons are) do not have a place in 0.0. An entire area of the game is obsoleted because even a corporation of industrialists can't utilize the resources well enough to compete with one person with a (jump) freighter. This is bad design. Contrary to popular belief, 0.0 should not just be a supercap PvP arena. Nullsec should be a place to build empires.


Last I checked the resources in 0.0 automagically renew just like they do everywhere else. In fact 0.0 is the place to go for moongoo, etc. So hey, here's a thought: don't burn through so many ships and you will have more money!

Unfrozen caveman nullbear: "Your money saving ways are strange to me."

Carebear: "I know but hey if it works for Warren Buffet and Donald Trump it can work for you."

Unfrozen caveman nullbear: "Hey man you got tree fiddy? I came up a little short ganking a miner."

Carebear: "Hey I gotta go..."

Unfrozen caveman nullbear: "Being a nullbear ranger costs money. Lazy ass carebear won't give me what I am entitled to. I guess I will go fill my diaper and cry to CCP. They always seem ready to help nullbears."

Unless I am mistaken 0.0 has multiple empires currently in place that are quite stable. Check a map and you will see.

Here's a fact about empires: They can be REALLY boring to operate. Treaties, tributes, trading, taxing and tolls are some of the joys of bureaucracy. How about military garrisons, training and patrolling and trying to AVOID burning military resources in pointless and silly ways because we need them for offense/defense?

Oh and as a rule they want the greatest reward with the least risk possible. True story.

Empires are not built by constant combat and piracy, not if they want to last. Rather they are most successful when they are built by taking and holding space, taxing, tolling, collecting tribute, producing, trading, patrolling, sometimes defending, sometimes attacking.

More needs to be done about making this game more entertaining for more people rather than catering to wannabe e-thugs, virtual badasses and commandos-in-their-own-minds who want to feel special.

Then again that may be EXACTLY what CCP wants. Their behavior over the years certainly appears to support that idea.

It's not piracy if they took millions of ISK out of their own pockets now is it?

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams
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