EVE General Discussion

This is crap.

What's "well-known" is that too many new players, all too often think they can jump in at the "top" of the game by buying a 2 or 3 year old character -- and not realizing what it really costs to fly those big shiny ships or how the skills make the ships work -- when they should have started at the bottom and worked their way up.

Thus, learning how the game is *really* played is a sudden shock to many new players because they have no CONTEXT of the game as a whole.

They've been born into a mentality of "Instant Gratification" and virtual entitlement... which is pathetic, at best, and far, FAR worse for the game than the alleged cost of getting into PVP.

Fly a frig, learn to fly it well... get some kills and have some fun... LEARN FROM THE VETS ... actually earn the right to *****.

For my part, I'm happily ticking the days off the calendar until the the kiddies all go back to school and EVE is no longer a cheap form of "daycare"... that's what WoW is for.

Just wanted to added this section from the article i linked, as it's spot on for this discussion:

http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2012/09/how-game-tutorials-can-strangle-player-creativity/

Click on the link i posted, read the article. What you are suggesting here (and what probably already happens in the game) is this:

As someone who flies in Frigates with both vets AND noobs on a regular basis, I can safely say that it is not the cost of PvP that is an issue. It is about joining a group that knows what it is doing. A newbro fit can be priced under 2-3mil with reasonable fittings and that ISK is usually just given to the pilot or the fit is offered to them by the Corporation. A T2 fitted Frigate usually ranges from 5-10mil so I'll back you on that one. But I think it is the lack of understanding the mechanics of small scale PvP that is turning pilots away. Groups that take newbros in and fleet them up have it right. You can't solo a fight without knowing how/when to engage. I toss my newbros into kiting ships that are easy to learn in and let them join in and have fun. They can watch veteran scouts do their work and secure a point.

TL;DR: For small scale PvP, cost is negligble for newbros if you are with the right group.

I'm going with him falling into the entitlement generation/ generation y/me demographic.

10mil!?

The first 15 or so ships I managed to blow up were around 1.2 mil each! including everything.
You can even fly perfectly fine fits for lower than that.

And I have ran maybe 4 lvl 1 missions in total.

Besides that, join a good "newbro" pvp corp and you will be fine either way because most of them have a ship replacement system that you can tap into.

I usually just explore some systems for extra ISK. Besides that, even without the skills for it, I trade a bit on the local markets and make a little profit like that.

If I am allowed to recommend 1 thing: Drop that raven into a trashcan or sell it, and buy LOADS of T1 frigs of the ISK. Then go into lowsec and explode them all. Pull yourself out of the track you are digging into EVE.

tl;dr
This game is perfectly newbro friendly if you get in contact with the right people when you start, or if you are inventive enough to think out of the box instead of running to the "quest givers" (missions) to make ISK.

EDIT: I exploded my first ship within the first week of playing, and many more after that.

I might want to add that even for someone with barely 3 years of sub to his name, I can hardly remember how being a newbie was at all. I too drifted alone and friendless for months, and PVP was a distant thing... and that was how I liked it at first. I wan't busy with "getting kills" but with preventing them from happening. Gradually I became better at the game and it happened less often, and in less dumb ways... but others would still be doing things the "dumb" way. I put two and two together and tadaa: I got solo kills. At this point losing a frigate became a non-issue.

Gradually my wallet grew and losing them happened less and less. Ergo, I made more ISK but also retained more ISK. Over time a nice amount of ISK accumulated in my wallet and losing bigger ships became less of an issue. Gradually my SP rose and I was capable of doing better paying PVE content. Again, I made more ISK, and it was at this point losing a cruiser didn't hurt me much anymore.

I't all very vague now but I remember growing into PVP gradually as my skills, knowledge and ISK making abilities increased. But it was back then, at that dreadfull start, losing a frigate was meaningfull and exiting. Nowadays I PVP in frigs when bored or when new members join our corp. Being eased into PVP by a bunch of friendly casuals is a must if you want to PVP comfortably from the start. I find it awesome to see corp members get into pew early, but they need to be "carried" a little bit, and that's fine. This is an MMO. The socially strong will always be ahead of the soloist.

It comes down to comfortable PVP through social skills or an absolute challenge going true solo. I did the latter first, the former later, and I do not regret that order of affairs. I'm the first one to admit I had a rough time at the start too. But when I share what I know now with the guy in a T1 Rifter on his trial, I bet he nails a solo kill within a week. It's that simple.

The "cost" depends. Everything in Eve "depends". If certain factors do not work in your favour, adapt. Seek company that is willing to carry you a little in exchange for nothing but your presence on comms. Accept you cannot be a PVP god and SP does count towards your successes. Once you are no longer in denial and have a bunch of pilots to fleet up with, PVP becomes a whole lot more fun.

Me too.

So if someone pays for a game they should have the dev-given right to hit the skill ceiling the moment they touch the controls?

You know when people call people who call EVE players elitist douchebags casuals? This is what they're talking about. In a game with any depth whatsoever it's going to take time investment to get good. If you don't want it to take weeks/months to get good you don't want to play a hard game.

As for the character skill wall stuff:
a) As has been said, it's not as high as people make out
b) If you don't want any character skill wall at all, don't play an RPG

@ Baltec1, your first link is broken, this one works though.