EVE General Discussion

Nonsense. I buy ~600 T1 frigates and fittings at a time and get them shipped out to 0.0 for less than 1.2m ISK per frigate. The frigates and fittings themselves cost ~400k ISK each and 2/3 of the cost is in shipping, the main reason why our alliance bears the cost. With those ships, our newbies can take part in any fleet op that doesn't require a jump drive or a black ops bridge.

You're taking the cost of a frigate with a tight T2 fit and assuming that that's what newbies would fly.

Or do what we do,

shoot them in the face.

Then tell them why we shot them in the face [because eve].

Then (assuming they haven't acuseed us of having psychological disorders and/or wished death upon us and/or our loved ones) teach them how to shoot others in the face.

You can always do that on the test server.

You should never be able to do that on Tranquility and here is why:

Combat with ships you can't lose is like Poker without money. It's not really the same and it makes it extremely pointless in my eyes.

It's like you focus on a single engagement and completely forget about the big war around you which forms the rest and the actually important and interesting part of the game.

It's also a bit like WOW duel arena stuff, actually like the crap meaningless PvP in every other game out there.

EVE is not about casual fair 1v1 or team eSports BS you find everywhere else. This is about WAR where you take every chance to sneak up on your enemy with superior force and club him over the head from behind! People who don't get that are in general really bad at EVE. There are a lot of this people in EVE, people who say things like "sportsmanship" or "fair fight". I think they are in the wrong game. I don't say they should go, I just say they should shut up, accept their role as prey and stop to try to destroy this unique and brilliant game with their stupid ideas.

I may have digressed a bit, but that's what you get for mentioning "holographic training"... sorry

CCP did that with faction warfare. They did it with making tech1 ships viable. They did it by removing learning skills. They did it by adding boosters than not only speed up new player (and ONLY new player) training but by boosting the dps they do. The did it by making it MUCH easier to skill into various ships. They did it by lowering clone replacement costs
etc etc etc.

If it takes more than the above to get a player to pvp, pvp ain't in the cards for them.

I look at it as more about steering new players to PvP. The common complaint I see with the tutorials, which I agree with, is that it is very focused on PvE and it seems natural that new players pursue this activity initially. This is a PvP game and it's unfortunate that this component is neglected during the tutorials.

Whether it's "holographic training" or some other mechanism to get new players into PvP quickly without a large perceived barrier, I think the more new player retention you might see.

Just a new players look at things. I'm fine nutting up old school.



Boosters? I didn't get any stinking boosters! :(

My impression was that FW is something you do with an alt since it messes your rep in a good chunk of the galaxy. Maybe I am wrong. Guess I should read up on that again.

Yea.. no, you can make a crap load more then 30m just by chanining belts rats in a T1 BS. Dunno what the hades you are doing, but your doing it wrong.

10 year vet, mostly industry and I can make more then you mining in an hour then you can ratting? I all bull crap

I can't say that I disagree, CCP know that there are problems with the current NPE, IIRC they have plans to fix it.

Perceived barrier is the right word, part of the problem is some of the older players in the NPC corps who constantly push the "Lowsec is evil, PvP is evil, people who shoot at other people are insert psycho-babble term of choice paths" agenda. Other parts of the problem are that unlike other games, loss is actually "meaningful" here, the current realworld meta of rewarding failure (you come last in something, and get a prize regardless wtf is that about?), and that people just plain don't like losing.

You'll do well here, from what I've seen of your posting in NCQA, you have a habit of asking good questions, and taking on board the answers. You're the kind of newbie we like.

Courtesy of my corpmate Omar , about the best example of this i can think of .

You're welcome, good newbies deserve to be nurtured, the rest can go back to playing something else.

I agree that the costs of pvp can hinder quick access to this type of play.

I think this is good because I feel, we want players (especially the newer ones) to get more experience with the game in other ways so that they do not "freak out" when they find out what happens in pvp. RageQuit being the worst one.

With the high costs, I think it leads a player (especially a new one) to do one/some/all of the following:
1. Go beg in Jita and/or Amarr for isk. Some learn that this is a good way to get isk but learn no gaming experience for pvp. Most, however, learn not to go this route as most players ... well it is pretty obvious.
2. Do the tutorials to get items, isk, and learn the basics of the game.
3. Give up - sure do not like to see this.
4. Get ganked and want payback so they try harder to gain.

I feel if it was easy to get into pvp then pvp would not hold that thrill that leads a lot of us to get better, be badder, etc.
Besides, when you want to be a badass you do a lot of research, ask questions, get more experience -- tend to enjoy the game more or get an ulcer.