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The costs of PVP is too much for new players
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Otuk Andven
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-08-27 18:05:47 UTC
One of the big issues that I feel put players off PVP is the cost. This is especially true for new players.

Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings and rigs, yet for new players going to go into low sec to try pvp that ship is going to die.

Now 10m is a lot, -don't laugh- for new players and I suspect for a lot of people it is a lot. New players can't do incursions and their ISK/hour on missions will be low because of sub-par dps or tank. After 6 months in the game I was still going about 15m an hour in a navy raven doing lv4s.

The result is people spend more time engaged in missioning and mining to fund their pvp activity. Now I had a lot of free time then so I could grind missions for hours to do pvp a lot, (about half a billion worth of it if I remember). However now that I'm in work I doubt I could/would.

And people wonder why half the player base ends up mining/missioning?
Torneach Structor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-08-27 18:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Torneach Structor
Otuk Andven wrote:
an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK


Where in the world are you getting a T1 frigate plus fittings for 10M?

Like, seriously.

Cause where I am (Amarr) an average frigate hull is around 300k. No way in hell is anybody putting 9.7m in fittings on a T1 frigate.
Foxstar Damaskeenus
why did i join this corp
Not Purple Shoot It.
#3 - 2014-08-27 18:09:20 UTC
Join up with Eve Uni, Rifterlings or Brave newbies, just to name some of the great corps accepting new players.

This game is impossible to pvp and thrive in without the knowledge of others. And, a hell of a lot more fun to play with other people who want to pvp.

Also, buy or have a headset

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-08-27 18:09:39 UTC
Will set you back 1m.

People throw 1m around in Jita Local many times a day.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#5 - 2014-08-27 18:09:57 UTC
Otuk Andven wrote:
Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings and rigs, yet for new players going to go into low sec to try pvp that ship is going to die.
Yeah, no.
For a new player, the average T1 frigate is going to set you back 1–2M. This is well within their grasp to earn.

Quote:
And people wonder why half the player base ends up mining/missioning?
Actually, no-one really wonders that. It's hardly surprising with the bad advice being handed out in the newbcorps, with the tutorials being entirely centred around missions, and with the difficulty to get new players to jump into proper player corps (where they would get frigates for free, even at the massively inflated costs you're quoting).

But the minute cost of a T1 frigate isn't really a reason why that happens, no.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#6 - 2014-08-27 18:11:20 UTC
Not that I much about L4 missions as I haven't done them. But I know there are people who gets over 100mil/hr from them. So maybe it's time that refine your methods as 15mil/hr is extremely low.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#7 - 2014-08-27 18:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
One word : Derptron

Under 2.5M isk, lethal in force.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2014-08-27 18:14:35 UTC
Otuk Andven
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-08-27 18:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Otuk Andven
Mizhir wrote:
Not that I much about L4 missions as I haven't done them. But I know there are people who gets over 100mil/hr from them. So maybe it's time that refine your methods as 15mil/hr is extremely low.


I'll admit I wasn't really building up my skills on the right stuff then but even now I can only make 30m an hour doing nullsec anomalies. As far as I can tell those 100m/hr are the faction ships speed running the missions and choosing good pay-outs.

Torneach Structor wrote:
Otuk Andven wrote:
an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK


Where in the world are you getting a T1 frigate plus fittings for 10M?

Like, seriously.

Cause where I am (Amarr) an average frigate hull is around 300k. No way in hell is anybody putting 9.7m in fittings on a T1 frigate.


https://zkillboard.com/kill/33386391/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/33285953/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/32874574/

Fine the Kestrals were actually about 6m but my point still stands.

Sure you can make a frigate for about 1m but is it going to be any good solo? no chance
Pj Harvey
Red DUST Industries.
#10 - 2014-08-27 18:21:09 UTC
Things used to be a LOT cheaper in eve, but CCP have been artificially raising the the cost of things by messing with drop rates and build costs of ships. 4 years ago a frig was 120,000, a cruiser was between 2.5 and 3.5 mil and the tier one battleships were 55/60 mil.

CCP needs to sell PLEX, so they keep raising prices to milk their players for the next failed project they'll half finish then abandon.
Torneach Structor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-08-27 18:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Torneach Structor
Otuk Andven wrote:
Sure you can make a frigate for about 1m but is it going to be any good solo? no chance


So get friends and overwhelm a cocky dude in a cruiser with cheap frigates.

I think a rather powerful modern nullsec entity did something like that when it was just starting out...

Pj Harvey wrote:
Things used to be a LOT cheaper in eve, but CCP have been artificially raising the the cost of things by messing with drop rates and build costs of ships. 4 years ago a frig was 120,000, a cruiser was between 2.5 and 3.5 mil and the tier one battleships were 55/60 mil.

CCP needs to sell PLEX, so they keep raising prices to milk their players for the next failed project they'll half finish then abandon.


I remember those days...

I came back after a long break and found the prices to be... at the insane levels they are now.

I was full of sad. Hell, I still am.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#12 - 2014-08-27 18:28:35 UTC
Otuk Andven wrote:
One of the big issues that I feel put players off PVP is the cost. This is especially true for new players.

Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings and rigs, yet for new players going to go into low sec to try pvp that ship is going to die.

Now 10m is a lot, -don't laugh- for new players and I suspect for a lot of people it is a lot. New players can't do incursions and their ISK/hour on missions will be low because of sub-par dps or tank. After 6 months in the game I was still going about 15m an hour in a navy raven doing lv4s.

The result is people spend more time engaged in missioning and mining to fund their pvp activity. Now I had a lot of free time then so I could grind missions for hours to do pvp a lot, (about half a billion worth of it if I remember). However now that I'm in work I doubt I could/would.

And people wonder why half the player base ends up mining/missioning?


Half the player base ends up in mining/missions because of the tutorial, TBH.

A T1 fit frigate should come in under 3 mil.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-08-27 18:30:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Leoric Firesword
Otuk Andven wrote:

Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings and rigs, yet for new players going to go into low sec to try pvp that ship is going to die.


you're doing this wrong

Otuk Andven wrote:

Now 10m is a lot, -don't laugh- for new players and I suspect for a lot of people it is a lot. New players can't do incursions and their ISK/hour on missions will be low because of sub-par dps or tank. After 6 months in the game I was still going about 15m an hour in a navy raven doing lv4s.


this? you're also doing it wrong

Otuk Andven wrote:

The result is people spend more time engaged in missioning and mining to fund their pvp activity. Now I had a lot of free time then so I could grind missions for hours to do pvp a lot, (about half a billion worth of it if I remember). However now that I'm in work I doubt I could/would.


this? still doing it wrong

1. T1 frig doesn't need T2 modules :) go cheap

2. I was making ~ 70 mil/hr in 2 months in an Armageddon (not navy, just the plain one), see, you have these skills, as the skills go up, ship ability does too. Try it :)

3. I neither mission nor mine to fund my pvp activities. There's this game mechanic, it's called Planetary Interaction or PI for short. You should research it. Sure it'll take ~30 days of training away from learning those ship skills you seem to lack, but then you no longer need to "grind" isk.

TL;DR You're doing it wrong, research is your friend.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#14 - 2014-08-27 18:37:15 UTC
Otuk Andven wrote:
One of the big issues that I feel put players off PVP is the cost. This is especially true for new players.

Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings and rigs, yet for new players going to go into low sec to try pvp that ship is going to die.

Now 10m is a lot, -don't laugh- for new players and I suspect for a lot of people it is a lot. New players can't do incursions and their ISK/hour on missions will be low because of sub-par dps or tank. After 6 months in the game I was still going about 15m an hour in a navy raven doing lv4s.

The result is people spend more time engaged in missioning and mining to fund their pvp activity. Now I had a lot of free time then so I could grind missions for hours to do pvp a lot, (about half a billion worth of it if I remember). However now that I'm in work I doubt I could/would.

And people wonder why half the player base ends up mining/missioning?


Compared to when i started, EVE is SPEWING isk and pvp is cheaper than ever because t1 ships are actually useful.

I have a corp mate who was introduced to the game last year. We helped him with like 30 mil to buy skill books, told him to download eve mon and EFT, and a few weeks later I loaned him a Maelstrom. He did the rest himself. Within a few weeks he was flying a Machariel with meta4 guns bought with incursion isk (gotten from using my maelstrom) and was flying that in fleets make 100+ mil an hour.

I'll say again, he bought a pirate faction ship within weeks of starting on the strength of a 30 mil isk gift and a loaned Maelstrom. It took me MONTHS of mission running in 2007/2008 to buy my 1st Empire faction BS (A Navy Raven) and that was with my buddy who introduced me to the game selling it to me for less than what it was worth.

A Few short DAYS of training puts you into a ship that can do faction warfare missions and pvp (you can make isk pvping in FW), there was none of that when I started. Getting into pvp in a sustainable way is way way easy now, I used to have to take breaks from faction warfare to mission up more isk, now you don't even have to do that.

This is the problem with CCP making things easier for people. new people will come in, not having the context of the past, think things are 'too hard' and keep begging CCP to make things easier still.
Otuk Andven
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-08-27 18:37:43 UTC
Leoric Firesword wrote:


3. I neither mission nor mine to fund my pvp activities. There's this game mechanic, it's called Planetary Interaction or PI for short. You should research it. Sure it'll take ~30 days of training away from learning those ship skills you seem to lack, but then you no longer need to "grind" isk.

TL;DR You're doing it wrong, research is your friend.


Only place I've found PI to be worth it is null sec.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#16 - 2014-08-27 18:40:24 UTC
Otuk Andven wrote:
[stuff


No you didn't just link Paul Otichoda fits did you?
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-08-27 18:43:14 UTC
Torneach Structor wrote:
Otuk Andven wrote:
an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK


Where in the world are you getting a T1 frigate plus fittings for 10M?

Like, seriously.

Cause where I am (Amarr) an average frigate hull is around 300k. No way in hell is anybody putting 9.7m in fittings on a T1 frigate.


Meta IV modules maybe?
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-08-27 18:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: knobber Jobbler
10m is nothing, I lose 30 if I get podded. Sod the younglings, think of the bitter vets.

To the OP: Join brave alliance. Get free ships.
Charax Bouclier
Silvershield Universal
#19 - 2014-08-27 18:51:10 UTC
I'll throw out my silly idea. New accounts should be eligible for a holographic training mission where pilots are given stock equiped ships to fight against other noobs to really get the flavour of PvP combat with some objectives. If the idea is to get new players to taste PvP and get them hooked, it would be nice for it to be very accessible on the get go.
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-08-27 18:54:02 UTC
Otuk Andven wrote:
Leoric Firesword wrote:


3. I neither mission nor mine to fund my pvp activities. There's this game mechanic, it's called Planetary Interaction or PI for short. You should research it. Sure it'll take ~30 days of training away from learning those ship skills you seem to lack, but then you no longer need to "grind" isk.

TL;DR You're doing it wrong, research is your friend.


Only place I've found PI to be worth it is null sec.


WH's work quite nicely too. I've heard (but not looked for myself) that low sec is ok. If you're lucky you can even find some non-crappy planets in highsec.

Again, it comes down to research. in game, or out of game someone needs to do leg work to make anything worth while. Sometimes you get lucky and someone does that for you, sometimes you gotta suck it up and do it yourself.
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